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Title: Friend sacked from job...
Description: ...because he didn't get paid.


Macready - March 1, 2009 08:02 PM (GMT)
A mate has just rang me to let me know he's been sacked.

He started work at a local pub as a chef in January, worked about 3 weeks and was given 2 weeks wages for various reasons.

He was supposed to be paid one months wages plus last months missing week on Friday (27th Feb) but they gave him some bullshit about there being something wrong with the BACS payments. They couldn't actually tell him when they money would arrive in his account.

He told them today that he can't carry on working until he is paid and they sacked him.

I'm paraphrasing here but that's pretty much the series of events.

What are his options o' fine people of Wos?


xbendystevex - March 1, 2009 08:42 PM (GMT)
Well, other than putting bricks through their windows...

I would seriously suggest he consults his local Citizens Advice, perhaps with a view to the Small Claims Court. Of course he'd need to be able to prove he did actually work for them and possibly what kind of contract he had with them, but his first stop really should be the CAB. In my experience they are generally excellent.

Macready - March 1, 2009 08:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (xbendystevex @ Mar 1 2009, 08:42 PM)
Well, other than putting bricks through their windows...

Ha, that was my very first thought.

He's going to CAB tomorrow but, yeah, I think he's worried about proving he's done the work.

It was all above board but it's not as if he's been signing contracts....




xbendystevex - March 1, 2009 09:23 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Macready @ Mar 1 2009, 09:55 PM)
QUOTE (xbendystevex @ Mar 1 2009, 08:42 PM)
Well, other than putting bricks through their windows...

Ha, that was my very first thought.

He's going to CAB tomorrow but, yeah, I think he's worried about proving he's done the work.

It was all above board but it's not as if he's been signing contracts....

Well, he's no need to worry just yet, The CAB will point him in the right direction.

I assume the two weeks wages he was paid where in cash, with no kind of payslip?

sinister agent - March 2, 2009 04:28 AM (GMT)
Tell him to go back in on their busiest night of the week, put on his chef's gear, then storm out, shouting as loudly as possible about what a disgusting rat-infested shithole the place still is and how he won't put up with it any longer.

Tom Camfield - March 2, 2009 12:32 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Macready @ Mar 1 2009, 08:02 PM)
He was supposed to be paid one months wages plus last months missing week on Friday (27th Feb) but they gave him some bullshit about there being something wrong with the BACS payments. They couldn't actually tell him when they money would arrive in his account.

I used to work in a bank, and problems with the BACS payment system isn't unusual. BACS is the system that distributes wages, and it's entirely possible his wages went into the wrong account, or something. This happens reasonably often; both customers and staff punch in wrong numbers all the time. The bank usually can't quote a time when it would be resolved, because they have to track down the error, talk to other banks, get the person whose account it went into to okay taking the money out (if that's the problem) etc etc.

I wouldn't have quit, I would have asked who I could call to hound the bank so they bother sorting it out quicker than the rest. As a bonus, shouting at banks earns you compensation, so it's good sport.

I imagine he has other reasons for quitting? Like they're bad people or something? Or other workers didn't get paid? Because I can't really see it doing any good taking people to court when the BACS system has gone wrong, especially as, whisper it, your friend might have given the wrong bank details to his boss and caused the problem himself (or herself). Ooops.

Also, firing someone because they won't work is pretty normal practice, right?

NB Bricking windows and other larks won't get you paid, but jailed and fined, as fun as it may sound. And paying by BACS generally means there must be a contract involved and the pub are (surprisingly) being above board as to the payment of wages, shocker.

Macready - March 2, 2009 12:53 PM (GMT)
Two other staff hadn't been paid and his bank details are correct.

It was the fact that they couldn't give him a straight answer, no money in today either incidentally. If they had actually said 'listen, we've had a bad month and I can't give you your full wages' he would have been fine with that.

You can only be instantly dismissed for gross misconduct i.e theft/fighting, not working when you're owed wages isn't gross misconduct.

There were murmurings from people who had worked there longer that now and again they would have a 'problem' paying wages.

They've really shot themselves in the foot by sacking him.


Tom Camfield - March 2, 2009 03:40 PM (GMT)
Yes, that seems fine then.

(Edit, by which I mean, sounds like your friend got screwed and was right to down tools and consider his options. Soz.)

Ian Aris - March 5, 2009 11:19 PM (GMT)
Forget the courts. He'll need to go through the Employment Tribunals. He's got no rights for unfair dismissal as he doesn't have twelve months continuous employment so he can only claim for breach of contract. He would be entitled to wages for the time he actually worked and maybe for the notice period if there has been a procedural error here, depending on the terms of his contract which he'll have to scrutinise.

Your friend should go instantly to this website:

http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/

which explains the rules and has the on-line application form ET1 which he has to complete to start the claim in the Employment Tribunal. It's dead simple. The form itself is super straightforward and any lay person should be able to fill it out without difficulty.

There's a change in the rules that you have to write to the employer before making the application and waiting 28 days so he should do that immediately. HOWEVER he has 3 months from the date of the dismissal to make the application which is rigorously applied. He WILL lose the right to make the application if it's not done within this time so he needs to move his ass. So if the 28 day period to wait for a reply takes you outside the 3 month period DO THE APPLICATION ANYWAY.

AND, note this, the 3 month period works like this:

If you get sacked on 2nd Jan the last day to submit the application is 1st April. NOT 2nd APRIL. Submit the application on the 2nd and you're claim will get booted out (with a very VERY remote possibility of getting back in).

Going through the employment tribunal is by far the best method to get the dispute resolved. ACAS will get in touch with you and mediate between you and the employer. They are really freaking helpful. Most case handlers arefantastic people and will help you through the law-bits and procedural matters (to a degree).

It's cheaper than going through the small claims as it's free and there are no costs consequences if you lose (other than for vexatious claims). It's also much quicker than going through the county courts. Also, I've recently come across case law that says that you MUST take these matters through the tribunal as its the correct forum for this kind of dispute and you may get your claim kicked out of the county court, and then be barred from pursuing it through the tribunal if you're outside the 3 month period.

So, what's he waiting for, get him on-line and go through the application form. If he hasn't written to the employer, he must do it first remember, but the application form will 'talk him through' what he needs to do.

Also, I should say that the rules are on-line as well and he should refer to them if in doubt.

Hope this helps.

Macready - March 6, 2009 08:18 AM (GMT)
Brilliant, thanks alot.

He's spoken to them over the last few days and they said they will send a cheque out. As of today I don't know whether this has arrived and/or cleared.

It does imply that there was no BACS payment setup at all.

As far as I am aware he may be entitled to one weeks wages plus a days holiday if he goes through a tribunal but that does contradict what you said there as he certainly wasn't working for twelve months. So maybe not.






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