i love this album.

yeah, that makes at least two of us..

And Bob makes three...........

I really like Unknown Pleasures, but haven't listened to it in a long time. Maybe it's because when I feel a bit shit I'd prefer to stick on New Order's Low Life to lighten things up a bit. And at the moment Joy Division kinda remind me of my friend Mad's new cooler-than-thou rock mates and it leaves an unpleasant taste when (to me) they haven't suffered. Hahaha! Not to say that you need to have had a bad time to be able to "properly" enjoy Joy Division, but I can't say it doesn't get to me when these people dance around singing about suicide when they're really all very who-are-the-coolest-people-in-here-oh-fuck-we-are. Know what I mean?

Still, a fine album.

i really want to get that substance cd now. i love the tracks "digital" and "transmission"- i thought they would be on the closer album but it seems not.

..

Up to 5 now.

My JD - Substance is my ONLY CD that skips. It's flat as a pancake... yet it can be heard flapping around in my CD player... but any JD fan ought to be getting a non-skippy one for those B-sides (and flexi disc) that can't be found elsewhere. (Oh, there's that box set somebody mentioned... they MIGHT be on there but I've never seen the track list for it).

Some may disagree, but I think Still is worth buying for both the Warsaw stuff AND the live stuff. I love the guitar on the live Passover... that LONG feedback with the abrupt chord at the end.

Although 24 Hours (Closer) is my fave JD track... UP is definitely the more consistent of the two "regular" albums. I still listen to both quite often.... I've crunched 'em into MP3s where they reside in a playlist containing TOO MANY thousand songs.

Still is great, all the studio songs are really wonderful.. I think I even like it more than Closer... Definitely worth getting..

The Heart and Soul boxset is fantastic - better than the New order one released this year. Unkown Pleasures is a fantastic album, as is Closer - I couldn't choose between either of them to be honest. Top 3 Joy Div songs: Insight, Shes Lost Control and the live 24 Hours from Still.

The Joy Division boxset is better than the New Order one because a) it captures all sides of the band without too much repetition and B) was put together with obvious love and care.

The New Order one is just like most things New Order have done in the last 10 years - put together for the money. That last album was embarassing, two good tracks out of 10 and frankly I wish theyd split up a long time ago.

Today's obscure early 90s British Fall-influenced album: BODY FAST MIND by the New Fast Automatic Daffodils (on my walkman this morning after being found in an old box in my attic), great album this........anybody else appreciate it....

"even a loaded gun
won't set you free
so you say" :(

Have lyrics ever captured the depths of despair so prefectly?

As regards a favourite Joy Division album, I would have to go for 'Closer'. As soon as I hear the opening track 'Heart and Soul' it just takes me right back to when I first heard Closer years ago. I also love She's Lost Control (the version off Substance). I never really though the much of New Order though (except for 'Your Silent Face' off 'Power, Corruption & Lies'. I love when Bernard says "why don't you just piss off" at the end which in a way kind of undermines the whole beautiful melody etc. making out as if 'oh! we can do this any 'ol time ....ahem! -_- )

yeah - really liked them, Bruises and Big are vpopular in this house

have to disagree re JD Vs NO - recently sold Heart & Soul, got the NO box for xmas - smashed a few bits & pieces washing up after xmas dinner cause I was a bit pissed and couldnt help "dancing" to a lot of the NO stuff - pisses all over the JD box by a countryfknmile. like JD, love NO - but not as much as the Fall

any Owls Fall fans out there?!! don't worry, you will have the last chuckle, we will now go 20 games without scoring and set another quality footy record (you name it, we did it)

I'm just going to have to recommend the two live bootlegs that just came out, "Preston Warehouse" and the blue french one. All the live stuff on those trumps the muddy Still stuff. Preston Warehouse is a pretty disturbing CD though, as it pretty much documents an Ian Curtis breakdown (the equipment all fell apart, and the band does too, but it makes the music get more intense as it goes along). Still is worth getting, for the great Unknown Pleasures outtakes, but if you want all the rare stuff you might as well get the Heart and Soul Box set, it has every studio recording they did, including the harsh punk stuff from the Warsaw days. All the Martin Hammet tracks (the "real" Joy Division songs) are arranged chronologically starting with Digital and ending with Decades, which with bands who progressed as fast as Joy Division did--is an essential thing to do. My only gripe with box sets in this instance, is a great album gets lost in the middle of a 70 minute CD. Chances are you're going to be more inclined to listen to a 40 minute disc than a 70 minute one, so it might detract some much needed JD attention. And you also lose the specific cover work for the albums, when packaging was very important for bands like Joy Division. I have no idea why they chose an exploitive pixily photo of Ian in mid-epileptic frenzy for the cover art as opposed to a Peter Saville design, but someone in marketing felt it was necessary.

As for the UP and Closer argument, I'm on both sides. For the longest time, I felt UP was the more enjoyable album, it's definitely more accessible. Now I lean towards Closer though. The production is better (UP is a wee bit dated, check out the Star Wars lightsabers on Insight), and so are the lyrics. I also think it's more consistent. UP starts off brilliantly, and all and all is a 5 star album I'd say, but I can't help but feel the first 2/3 is stronger than the last 1/3. Closer starts and ends on an amazing note. One thing Closer lacks in terms o being a complete JD representation is the intensity in Ian's voice. There are no Transmissions or Disorders on it, but then again, they wouldn't necessarily fit the mood of the album either.

I dont have a fave with jd and no

i think curtis was more sincere
but new order was more musical

i will do a jd and no album one day cos these r among my heroes
the smiths were good very too... but they had too posey a spirit for me

the smiths are really naff arent they even tho their music is good.

Re: The Smiths

I really liked 'What Difference Does It Make' when I first heard it (I rushed out and bought the single) and I still like 'Half A Person' and 'Last Night I Dreamt...' (the 12 inch with the long intro).

I have to say though overall you pretty much get your fill of them after a while. I think Morrissey is very pretentious and all those pics of him sticking his tongue out etc. are just well ..*crap*. How anybody could find him in anyway iconic or cool is beyond me (plus their sleeves became incredibly bland and obvious after a while) ^_^

yeh thats my favorite track of theirs, what difference does it make. :)

also i like "there is a light that never goes out".

The Smiths are 4th for me in the Manchester band stakes after Fall, JD/No and the Mondays. I always rate them ahead of the Stone Roses (most overrated band/album ever?).

Fave Smiths track - Rubber Ring (reminds me of my first sexual experience - doesnt really, that would be too perverse!)

Permanent, came out in '95 on London Records is a well good j.d. compilation, tho'it's not got 'new dawn fades' on it which i think's their finest track, ( recently ruined by that moby bloke :angry: )...'Closer' is less harsh and has more of an acceptance to it cf. 'Unknown Pleasures'..and is well good for working out to...

Working out to Joy Division?

"Absmosphere"? perchance....

I like to jog to "Decades"

exercise will send me into an epileptic fit i am sure

instead..... i will chill to..........feel it closin in....DAY IN!!!! DAY OUT!!!! DAY IN !!!!DAY OUOUOUPOT.....hmmm i 'll have to do a joy division album.....maybe next month

I think Closer is the better of the two by a hair. From Heart and Soul through 24 Hours, The Eternal and Decades makes for one of the best sequencing of a rock album ever. The first half is a bit rawer, which I like, but it took longer for me to appreciate. Atrocity Exhibition and Colony kick arse. I think UP is a bit more poppy and accessible but if you listen to both albums Closer hasn't dated a second, whereas UP has. I love them both though. I don't know if JD ever did a 'bad' song.

New Order are fun but the lack the power of JD IMO.

I haven't listened to it or Closer for a long while but I was a big fan of both and suppose still am.

Closer the only album I would advise you not to listen to when you are feeling particularly down, as it almost reduced me to tears at a particular low point in my life. :ohdear:

Dead souls is one of the greatest songs ever recorded and it's not a bad novel,either.

no - other side of that divide even tho blades gone a bit shite after fairly cracking start to season... leeds going down & blades going up is much desired in this neck of the woods -the perfect end to the season...

That album was ace, a breath of fresh air at the time...even tho it was very retro in some ways.

Excellent guitar work.

Maybe slightly overrated but come on..if we are talking over rated Manchester bands...Oasis, Take That

FALL
SMITHs
NEW ORDER/STONE ROSES

My top 3 for M/C.

I love Joy Division....one of my top 10 bands of all time...that also includes the fall, the chameleons, the cure (pre 1992), television personalities, and strangelove

Half my cd's flap, so I balance an iron weight on the player's lid +everything's fine :)
My Greek friend rests a large iron weight on the toilet seat at night, to confound any rats that might swim up the u-bend :unsure:

Tried to do Unknown Pleasures tonight, but it's Still that my numb, sullen head's happier to explore it's misery to (crunching hand-claps :applaud: +the rest).
:mellow: Music that helps you cry is good, i.m.b.

:devil2:
. .. a Porky Prime Cut, so I read in the Vendetta Parchment.

.. . what a can of worms this thread's opened for me - thought I was in for The Kink's this week-end, but they've been usurped by unknown pleasures ..
got some oldcountry music to record later, but I can't see it happening now. Somehow.
`` :(
`
``
````````````` :)

The lyrics are...

"Directionless so plain to see,
A loaded gun won't set you free.
So you say."

Have to agree with you, it's does epitomise the word despair. Beautiful song, great lyrics full of emotion. I am a big fan of Joy Division, their music influenced me so much, as does The Falls.

I read some interview from 81 right after Ian died, and the interviewer kept pestering the band, "how come you didn't suspect someone who wrote "a loaded gun won't set you free/so you say" would kill themselves?" Really obnoxious, even if it was generally a revering article.

Love Unknown Pleasures! :wub: :lol:

Though Closer has got a couple of steps in front personally.

Itchload Posted on Mar 3 2004, 08:02 PM
I read some interview from 81 right after Ian died, and the interviewer kept pestering the band, "how come you didn't suspect someone who wrote "a loaded gun won't set you free/so you say" would kill themselves?" Really obnoxious, even if it was generally a revering article.

Dunno that's what me and a few others thought back then, that he'd do sommat like that just from the lyrics, wasn't just your standard teenage six form stuff though. :( :)

unknown pleasures is fantastic, disorder never fails to make me wanna spaz dance all over the floor. closer is a terrific album too. to my delight i found it on vinyl for the measly sum of £7 a few years ago in my local independent music shop, and oh has it served me well. dead souls is one of the best songs ever

:applaud: :applaud:

who was Hooky & where is (s)he now?

Top album, btw.

I dug out my original vinyl the other day, and I'm no hi-fi snob or anything, but the original vinyl sounds loads better than any subsequent cd re-issue. I think because the sound is very clinical and cold it needs to be played on vinyl.

i havent heard it on anything other than vinyl, but i see what you mean. that sort of claustrophobic atmoshpere that keeps on rising throughout the second side