Well?

Not as good...


A few days ago I might have voted differently but after watching the Touch Sensitive DVD, I'd say MES was a bit tired.


I like their last string of albums since Levitate very much but if that DVD is indicative of what you get at a Fall concert I have to say it's a little disappointing. As I said on another thread I played the Reykjavik CD soon after the DVD which put it all in perpective for me. MES just really didn't give a shit and was really irritating to watch. However, having said all that some of the Touch Sensitive Bootleg Box CDs are really quite good (2&5 iirc). That singing through a sock thing doesn't really cut it though.

Hearing him on the recent York gigs, I'd say he blows hot and cold. But the recent Peel session was superb, I thought; a real grower.

From the recent gigs I've been to, MES is pretty obviously on better form than he has been for years. Much as I like a good deal of what the new(er) musicians have done, it'd be daft to pretend that any of the post-Hanley, post-Nagle line-ups have been on a par with the line-ups that recorded, say, PBL or Levitate.

They've still got in it them to be a bloody good band. And with a full line-up (2 guitars, Elena on keyboards) they've easily got a classic album in them. The last Peel session was extraordinary.

The previous lineup really hit their stride with "Unutterable", after the test flight of "Marshall Suite".

Better than they used to be (e.g. circa Shift-Work) and worse (circa Hex).

Shift-work was an attempt at working differently and getting a different effect to their last album. It doesn't deserve the kind of contempt we see on these boards, no more than Room To Live, Dragnet, Slates or AYAMW do.

Re: PBL... Not *that* daft. There's no reason to automatically assume that a new lineup of the Fall can't technically be better or accomplish more than that one did. That one wasn't original band members either; Karl was back but everyone else joined, when, in late 79? Early 80? That means the lineup had really only cut their teeth for 3 or 4 years. And just how long has the current one been going now, hmm?

"Not as good as they used to be"

The period from 1980 through 1986 is their peak for me, and I think they are operating below that level at this time, but no band could maintain such a high level for so long. The fact that they did it for 6 years is impressive. That having been said, I think they are still pretty good. On a scale of 1-10, if they were a 10 from 1980 to 1986, then nowadays they are a 7.5, while most other active bands, even really good ones, are about a 5.

Rubbish.. I've been into the Fall since 78, and I think TRNFAFCOTC and Unutterable are far superior to PBL.. The Hanley etc line-up weren't as interesting at the end as the current line-up. They simply ran out of steam.

Its so hard to say that they were better or worse at any given time. I think most people could identify the run from Slates to TNSG as their best period, but that doesn't allow for great albums like The Unutterable which came out fairly soon after a period of heavy turmoil. Is The Unutterable better than PBL? How can you quantify that? The sound of PBL is as far removed from the sound of The Unutterable as it's possible to get and still be the same band!

So I will throw my cap in with the 'As good as they have ever been' camp simply because The Fall is a dynamic, shifting thing and ALWAYS has been. I might not like Cerebral Caustic as much as I like PBL or The Unutterable, but it is still a damn good listen, still The Fall. And that is worth more than anything else to me.

Fuck knows...they're a band of the moment and of fond memory...nobody else like 'em...onward! Onward!!

But it's NOT "the same band" that did PBL and The Unutterable... it's 2 bands that justb happen to have Mark E Smith in.

R... did you actually read what I said? I was agreeing with you, really.

Its still recognisably The Fall. The fact that the members have changed is as much a part of what makes The Fall what it is as Mark being in the band IMO.

Sorry Rex.. that was confusing. I was replying to the quote you'd posted, and adding my ire to your relatively mild rebuttal! I agree with what you said..

On recent tours eg 1998 to 2004 they've not been as good and the albums from say 2000 have lacked something; I'm sorry to say this but it needs to be said; The Fall are not just M.E. Smith plus backing band, personally I'd at least like to see Hanley S. back on guitar :P
But one thing TRNFA(Country On The Click) was the best this millenium,so maybe their over the hump and back to producing good albums,I enjoyed 75% of the Peel session(New tracks)-so here's hoping "Interim" is good and the proper album in about 6 months time will be worth waiting for. :nahnah:

P.S.
I wish people would stop anylalizing everything the Fall release,it's either good, bad or indifferent :banghead:

I think the 2002 gig I saw was far better than the Hanley band was from 94 onwards.. up there with the Hex and Code Selfish tours for me..

I think the last album was superb (the first six songs are absolutely amazing, the rest is very good apart from the cover version).

I think "Mod Mock Goth" is among the best single songs that The Fall have ever recorded.

I think "Blindness" is even better! "What about us?" and "Clasp Hands" are brilliant also, as is the re-worked "Wrong Place..."/"Grass Grow".

I think MES's lyrics and delivery on the last Peel session are absolutely fantastic. The best they've been in ages. He sounds like I think MES should sound: full of confidence and not so much singing as orating... like he was on "C'n'C -S Mithering" or "The NWRA".


So yes, I think that the new band are on the verge of GREAT things if they can keep together; and I would say that if you just went by the strength of the last Peel session then they are as good as they've EVER been. The band are starting to find their own distinctive sound and style; and all seven of them seem to be contributing something. The last time they were this good was in their 1979-1985 peak. They kept it up for 6 years last time. Lets hope they can do the same again. :P

You took the words right out of my mouth.

As good, and as Fall, as ever.

I am not too impressed with the current line-up. They really don't offer much, they are too bland, too typical. I do like the addition of the incompetent keyboard player- that at least makes a bit of tension. The beauty of the hanley/scanlon/burns etc era was that they had no expectation of what music should be, they were raw. Even the Nagle era was interesting. The last two albums have been OK, not the worst, but not terribly interesting. People claim the Fall is all about MES, but my favorite Fall albums are the ones where the music is very interesting & innovative & strange.

I really want the Fall to be MES and your granny on bongos....that would be GENIUS!
When the whole Nagle/Levitate era band was sacked, didn't MES play with a drummer and a guitar play for a few gigs? drummer from, if I remember, The Styrenes? Did anyone see these shows?

As for MES...I think he is getting more OOMPH in his vocals lately. I prefer the declaration style vocals of Grotesque & totalles turn over the flat singing. Singing on ...missing winer is great on spots, especially the last track- reprise/jane/etcetc

the fall fucking rule.

The drummer was Kate Themen, of Polythene (now in Kings of Poundland, according to the biog page on the website).

Polythene were a fabulous band actually - it's well worth trying to track down any one of their three singles. Think Huggy Bear but louder, faster, and with more shouting.

It's funny that shift-work seems to get shafted so much, as does Cerebral Caustic, both seemingly underappreciated.
The only really poor recent album has been are you are...which, no matter how much i tried (and, goddammit, i tried), i could not get into at all.
I think the most impressive thing about Country..was that I could play it for my fallhating friends and they didn't hate it; yet it's still a great album. Both god dam versions.

MES would probably see that as a problem...and if he read this comment he would think the opposite... ^_^

Yeah, you're absolutely right, but I think if I spent any time molding my opinions to what I thought Mr. Smith would think of them...well, what's the point of that? And what would he have to say about how pathetic I was being in doing so? Uh-oh, I'm doing it...

You can drive yourself barmy...look at MES ^_^

the fall goes in cycles. good then mediocre then good again. they've done this since they formed, although the first ten years were mostly good. just at the moment they're as good as they've ever been. but there's always the possibilty of half-arsed nonsense like ayamw round the corner

Portugal? :lol: :applaud:

This is (and has always been) very true.

BUT

Even their half assed efforts contain moments of brilliance. I must admit, it took me a while with AYAMW, but one day it just clicked for me and i've loved it ever since (in much the same way as you initially reject, then come to like a scruffy old stray dog that just KEEPS licking your hand...)

I voted for "not as good" but what I mean is "not as consistent" they still produce works of magic, (blindman being a top example) but the padding's a bit thick and the horsehair's coming out at the side.

Anyone revised their opinions on this following this week's London gigs?

They're still the best group around as far as I'm concerned. Nobody comes near. I enjoyed the Sunday night and thinking about it it reminds of a some early 80s gigs in North London Poly (?) where they literally battered the audience into submission. I recall a particularly memorable performance of And This Day. Glad to hear Monday was different. Always thought The Fall understood the notion of 'performance', and performance with an edge: it could be blinding or go horribly wrong. In that respect they probably have more in common with the likes of performance artists like Burroughs, Kerouac, Ginsberg etc. than 'pop' groups.

I'd just like to say I actually prefer it when MES just gets on with it, rather than chucking mikes around and wandering off.. My heart always sinks when he starts fiddling with amps and shit..

So even though I wasn't there on Monday, it sounds to me as if Sunday's gig was more to my taste..

the fall rule everyone should know this.

"...but sometimes that's not enough" ^_^

I know myself well enough that my tendency would be to slag TRNFLPCOTC in favour of their older stuff -- just based on my past experiences with bands that have survived so long. However, every time I listen to it, I am more and more convinced that it is as good as anything they've done in the past. Ditto for the stuff from the last Peel session.

Impressive, really.

I went to Sunday's gig - too loud - the sound the band had could have done with a bigger venue. If this way a completely new band playing that material, I suspect we would have been elbowing the NME journos and their mates to get to the bar. I thought it was powerful and invigorating.

I thought the last album and the recent Peel album was a return to form.

By the way, stop slagging Shiftwork - it's consistent and has many first rate songs -something many of their later albums have lacked.

Therefore, I have to go for ' as good as they ever have been'.

It is indeed consistent: consistently dull.

And consistently my least favourite Fall studio album