Let's settle this here & now: who wants the oldies played, and who doesn't?

oldies are great when they're genuine surprises. not so great when they become boringly routine n predictable. surely it can't be that difficult to keep changing the oldies every few nights a la bob dylan

(that said, have yet to tire of mr pharmasist n big new prinz (soz))

Great poll Dave...

Personally I'd like to see a balance. Out of a setlist of say 14 songs, I'd like to see maybe 2 oldies, and the rest from the last one or two albums and as many new songs as possible. Keep the 2 oldies in the set rotating as well, to add to the suprise...

Anymore than two and you risk the Fall turning into a self-tribute act. Brand new songs in the set just re-inforces the fact that The Fall are still as great as they've always been. No oldies at all wouldn't be great though, because a lot of us are too young to have seen The Fall in their earlier incarnations, so to us the old songs are really fresh live.

As long as they largely play new material, like in t'good old days...

Having only seen em once in 1983, I can't really say.

Their catalogue is so huge now they should, of course, rotate old material.

Were I to go to an F. gig this week, I'd like to hear the newest & the obscurest.

I hate seeing veteran bands who trot out the old 'hits' in one big segment, or worse, as a medley, that classic-rock trick.

80% new stuff (not only the last record, but the previous as well), 20% old stuff but not the same all the time. As already said, no more Pharmacist!

Bingo!

also: oldies not necessarily need to be from the dreaded "eighties", could be from the seventies or the nineties!

Not the ones the band choose to play into the ground i.e. Mr Pharmacist or White Lightening but the ones they didn't play much at the time. As an example ProtienProtection on TRNF or the early singles. :grrr:

From 1977 to the mid-90s, The Fall played mostly unreleased or just-released material, which was always refreshing. The last few years have seen more and more oldies – but these are really cover versions, due to the fact that none of the musicians appeared on the originals. Although I despair at the number of old tracks in recent shows, it seems only right that Mark should be allowed to choose from his vast back catalogue and revisit old 'chestnuts' – but a bit more variety woldn't go amiss. How about dropping Big New Prinz and Mr. Phramacist and tackling some of the songs in the never-played-live list? I'm sure we'd all like to hear live versions of Shad Segment and... Crew Filth!

I've got to the point with Pharmacist and White Lightning that I previously got to with Glam-Racket - while it's a great song, I can safely say that I never want to hear any of them live again.

I'd rather hear a whole set of new and recent songs; I thought the new ones at Stourbridge were by far the strongest in the set, along with Mountain Energei and Sparta.

i want a complete set i have never heard in my life so that i feel totally alienated from the band :D

also ...record companies? r they that bothered what a band plays live? i mean they might not want a band to release too many records....but if a band chooses to write lots of tracks...will it really be detrimental if they choose to try them out live to see if they work...then just release the best few as an album.

I'm not sure that'd totally true: didn't the late eighties set-list feature quite a few oldies like Rowche Rumble, Totally Wired and City Hobbgoblins?

Yes, but as about 15% of the overall set. Oldies are now up to about 50% of the sets.

50%, is that actually true?

I guess it might be due to lineup instability - stick to tried and tested until you've built up some work of your own. And it's difficult to sustain the level of energy and fan-interest to support tours of unfamiliar material like in the "early days" when material apparently got dropped very quickly. I don't know anyone else operating in the mainstream (which, yes, The Fall do) who could pull that off after so long. And there has to be a level at which you play some stuff people know and love, so that they still come to your gigs - there's economic pressure.

I don't mind the odd oldie (sometimes they draw out some quality of the current band - I liked "And Therein" during the Halal/Wilding era for that reason), and Big New Prinz has kind of become a signature track and I think it works whatever the lineup. But as people have noted, there's a danger in playing too many oldies when the band haven't written them. The band need to be creative (which we're told they have lots of opportunity to be in The Fall, which is why people keep coming back) and to write their own Fall songs which they can play and mean it. Without that living, working, ethos, you really would just have MES + session musicians. I'm sure the band would rather be playing their own stuff.

Some people would love to hear a "greatest hits" set from the Fall. And they could pull that off no problem. But it would be the death of The Fall and that can't be what any fan wants.

Dan

Here's a couple of recent-ish setlists:

5th July 2003 – Middle East, Cambridge, Massachusetts

1. Intro tape (excerpt from Pander! Panda! Panzer!)
2. Behind The Counter
3. Telephone Thing
4. Green-Eyed Loco Man
5. And Therein…
6. Mere Pseud Mag. Ed.
7. Contraflow
8. F-’Oldin’ Money / Kick The Can
9. Touch Sensitive
10. Last Commands Of Xyralothep Via M.E.S.
11. Theme From Sparta F.C.
12. Mr. Pharmacist
13. Janet, Johnny + James
14. Way Round
15. Big New Prinz
16. White Lightning
17. Bourgeois Town

Of these, 11 are oldies (i.e. from 2001 or earlier) and 5 are recent. Of the oldies, 6 are from 1990 or earlier.


8th December 2003 – Carling Academy, Islington, London

1) Intro tape (excerpt from Pander! Panda! Panzer!)
2) The Joke
3) Open The Boxoctosis
4) Theme From Sparta F.C.
5) Middle Mass
6) Green Eyed Loco Man
7) (We Are) Mod Mock Goth
8) Walk Like A Man
9) Mountain Energei
10) Janet, Johnny + James
11) Contraflow
12) Mr. Pharmacist
13) (We Wish You) A Protein Christmas
14) Mere Pseud Mag Ed
15) Big New Prinz
16) White Lightning
17) Dr. Buck’s Letter

Of these, 7 are oldies and 9 are recent (with the bonus that one, Walk Like A Man, is unreleased).

Obviously, when a new album is out, those songs come to the fore (so in this later gig there are more Real New Fall LP songs), but both these examples compare very badly to the early 1980's era where almost the entire set consisted of at-the-time unreleased material.

old covers maybe-i reckon black monk theme and shut-up would be great by this incarnation

I don't mind the odd one or 2, but I don't want a load of them.

I remember watching them in Camden in 2001, not long after the Marshall/Unutterable lot had just been sacked, and I was quite startled when he did "Damo Suzuki" after having already done "Pharmacist". Up till then he would only ever do 1 oldie per show. I thought it was a signal that retirement/death was imminent.

"Some people would love to hear a "greatest hits" set from the Fall. And they could pull that off no problem."

But they've already done it - it was on that DVD.

I saw the Camden Ballroom gig in late 2002, which featired a *lot* of old stuff, plus Susan Vs. Youthclub (which now seems to have been deleted from history - why?). It was a nice mixture actually.

Echoing Mpv's sentiments elsewhere, how do all these oldies fit in with Mark's supposed hatred of nostaligia and look-back bores? Is he more conservative than he likes to think?

Another example, with original song release dates listed:

July 17th 2003 – Gypsy Tea Room, Dallas, Texas

The Joke (1995)
Telephone Thing (1990)
Behind the Counter (1994)
Green-Eyed Loco Man (2003)
And Therein (1990)
Contraflow (2003)
Mountain Energei (2003)
F-'Oldin' Money/Kick the Can (1999/2001)
Bourgeois Town (2001)
Touch Sensitive (1999)
Theme from Sparta FC (2003)
I Am Damo Suzuki (1985)
Mere Pseud Mag Ed (1982)
Mr. Pharmacist (1986)

All true, but throughout the Fall's live history he has often followed a pretty solid formula. New/current songs, plus some from most recent one or two recordings, and maybe a couple of older ones depending on whatever the whim had been at the beginning of the rehearsal. I've got no objections to seeing a couple of oldies wheeled out, provided they are replaced by other songs when the set moved onto its next stage, rather than staying and taking the place of new/recent material. I was looking at Clayts' site, and was amazed that certain songs have been binned for twenty years or so !

For me, the next gigs will be the London ones, so I'd love to hear a set roughly comprising:

all 3 new Peel tracks
half of COTC/RNFLP
a couple from the last 3 years or so
a cover maybe
two oldies

oldies always work well for an encore as well to these ears at least. We'll see.

Can't someone organise a decent interview with the man and ask him these questions? I'd volunteer myself if he'd let me. I couldn't be any worse than some of the idiots let loose on him (see Blackburn DVD for good example).

Mr Pharmicist...I'm sure he sings this now as a complete joke, a sort of two-fingers salute at his "fans".

Or, it's just easy for him – a few minutes on autopilot perhaps?

Ay, there's the rub...and a lot more songs can be done this way. It's as easy as drinking for him.

Having just booked a ticket for 1 of the Islington shows, I feel quite sure that another oldie will be exhumed, this time something from 1983. My money's on "Smile".

I like Mr Pharmacist - in fact it's the only live oldie I do like. :P

Hmm.. not sure sure 'bout Smile this time round... :wacko:

How about some stuff from Hex/Room To Live that isn't The Classical or Hip Priest (not that I object violently to either), and some of the WAFW/Bend Sinister stuff ?

Didn't Josef say they'd been practicing Riddler ! recently ? If so, that would be mighty grand in my book :)

I would LOVE to hear 'Tempo House' live. Oh Yes.

I suppose like most users of this board have their favourites from years gone past but The Fall always seem to play a particular record e.g. Mr.Pharmacist and White Lightening. I would like to propose a Fall tour somrthing like the recent compilation, "50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong:39 Golden Greats" , a tour made up of a poll taken on this site, but there again the 3 new ones on Peel and the marathon 34 minute "Job Search" have me particularly slobbering of others written around the same time. And you go to see the Fall to hear the latest songs don't you and whoever said it earlier,I wouldn't want a Fall gig turning in to a Rolling Stones rehash and the really great ones never sound like you expected them to-no Sod me and stick to tried and trusted set-lists-you could get rid of "Mr.Pharmacist" though.
Christ according to the clock on this site it's my birthday can I have "Job Search" also(see My controls for e-mail address) :applaud:
What a prick,I've just glanced at the FallNews page and job search isn't a marathon 34 minutes,it's 34 minutes into the Peel show :banghead: [I'd still love a copy on any format] ^_^

:lol:

Here, thanks to BikeBloke.

Happy birthday!

Another interesting example:–

11th July 2004 – Fibber’s, York

1) Spoilt Victorian Child
2) Green Eyed Loco-man
3) What About Us?
4) Mountain Energei
5) Theme From Sparta FC
6) Clasp Hands [a.k.a. Steve’s New York City]
7) Mr. Pharmacist
8) I Can Hear The Grass Grow
9) Open The Boxoctosis
10) Contraflow
11) Walk Like A Man
12) White Lightning
13) Bourgeois Town

Only 3 tracks from pre-2000, which is a vast improvement. Also, 4 unreleased tracks! Only slight element of concern: there are 5 covers out of a mere 13 tracks (38% of the gig).

yes! me too.... :wub:

Suddenly everyone is starting to sound like Fallchase.

even me!?! :o

blimey.... gotta do something about that (no offence chase!)

Anyone know any more about this? Song has yet to appear at a show.

Regarding Pharmacist, MES genuinely loves to sing this song. Sure he has his contrary ways, but at the same time, occasionally he likes to enjoy himself on the stage. I've seen him asked about Pharmacist before and his default response is something akin to compensating for the fact its a great song and you can't get The Other Half's version anywhere.

Interestingly, the mid 90's--when we're noticing The Fall's new-material ratio dropped by about 15 percent--coincides a bit with the bands much more unstable lineup during the past decade, which seems to have seen a much higher turnover rate than the beggars/phonogram decade. MES has had 3 different core bands since 95 whereas post Dragnet he only saw a member or two leave/join every year or so.

I have to say, I'd rather see MES throw in a few oldies if it means performing a setlist he truly enjoys. He definitely loves the songs they play from RNFLP, and the oldies he picks are clearly some of his favs. I'd choose this over seeing him force himself through a barrage of new material he doesn't feel strongly about/doesn't quite enjoy playing live. You could also make the argument that if the new material isn't exciting to play live, it might not be worth releasing, but there are a number of great Fall songs that MES for whatever reason, has not played live. Bend Sinister is a well regarded album, but MES admitted he didn't enjoy performing it live.

For a band with such a massive back catalogue, there really is no variety in the setlists, but this has always been an issue correct? Usually the setlist is only a variable of about 20 songs tops

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

This is a great song. Just one thing, are the instruments supposed to sound like that? It sounds like an old blues recording with MES (who sounds in fine form, btw) doing a Hotel Bloedel over the top. It's wonderful.

deleted

Nope!