* = not quite a 'proper' album!

I went for Trout Mask Replica! Not only the greatest Beefheart album; but THE greatest album. Ever! By anyone!

The great thing about the album is the way that it gets better and better, even after hundreds of listens. You are always discovering a new sound somewhere. The way the instruments intermingle, and the way the songs ebb and flow, is simply hypnotic. Occasionally, when two or more of the instruments come into sync, you get an intense rush of adrenalin that no other music has ever given me. Almost every song is a belter, which is surely the sign of a great album! I really couldn't pick a favourite song...

I love most of the others too, apart from UG and B&M. I do find the last three a little lacking in pace sometimes though.

Your assessment of Trout Mask is ace. It is a universe all to itself.

I am really fond of the early, gritty Safe as Milk/Mirror Man stuff.

I just got the Grow Fins box recently and haven't even dived into it yet.

Also agree that Bluejeans and Moonbeams is likely his weakest, but Doc and Ice Cream are really great.

My pick for favorite, however, as far as what I listen to the most, is Strictly Personal.

I know this is sort of an anomaly with Beefheart fans and that Beefheart himself wasn't too pleased with the layered, psychedelic postproduction. Apparently some producer decided to give it the ol' LSD washout without the Man's approval. I'm sure it didn't need it since listening to Beefheart in general is like staring at the sun until hallucinations set in, but I just think it's fun, trippy and juicy as hell.

I really wanted to get Grow Fins, but it retails for over £100 in the few places I've seen it, so I've never bothered. What did you think of it? I have heard that the acoustic version of "Orange Claw Hammer" is really amazing?

I really like Strictly Personal too; and I really do love the last couple of albums. My only criticism is that they sound a little stodgy in comparison to TMR and LMDOB. These tend to flow more and be more dynamic. I also think that the band on DATRS and ICFC weren't quite as technically good as the definitive TMR Magic Band.

I went w/ Lick My Decals Off, as much as I love Trout Mask I think this one hangs together better as a record. I like the two drummer attack and I think overall the band's attack of the material has been honed.

I also really like Doc at the Radar Station

I still prefer Safe as Milk & Strictly Personal to Replica: the songs flow more naturally, still songs rather than works.. and the first teeters so wonderfully on the edge of what Beefheart was to become - it's still so normal, yet the ingredients are there, just poised to take over. The last three are fine too... odd to think they're all contained within 15 years.

I always think of Trout Mask Replica as being an album of 'songs'. I don't make a distinction between 'songs' and 'works' on this album at all (although I know Don Van Vliet referred to them as 'compositions'). For instance, I often find the songs going round in my head like any other music, and I sometimes find myself humming them or tapping out the music.

It is the only album I know of in which I don't anticipate some songs more than others*. And on an album of 28 tracks this is good going! What I mean by this is that give me any other album and start me off in a random place, and I will secretly always be slightly dissapointed or delighted about where I have ended up (not taking into account how far from the end of the album I am of course). With TMR I will be equally as excited anywhere! Each track has something special about it. I really like the powerful readings such as 'The Dust Blows Forward 'n' The Dust Blows Back' too. Very emotive. I would even say that 'Well' is a real highlight for me every time. I am never even slightly inclined to skip it!

* with the exception of the 2 weaker songs, 'China Pig' or 'The Blimp'; the former of which is almost traditional blues track, but with a good ending that is more in spirit with the rest of the album; and the latter is a kind of noise experiment a la WMC Blob 59, but I don't think it works as well as that. In different settings I feel both to these tracks would still be good, but for me they spoil TMR's flow...

I'm ashamed to say it has been gathering dust since I bought it. I got a very good deal on it used, otherwise I never could have scored it. Just kismet. I walked in my local shop, someone had just unloaded their copy and bang, I made it mine.

To tell you the truth, I have been buying Fall CDs at such a rate I haven't been listening to much of anything else the last few months. All their albums from Extricate forwards are brand new to me. And while I've been into the Fall since the early 80s, I had never heard Live at the Witch Trials or In a Hole, so the excellent reissues of those (tip o' the hat to Conway) are also in heavy rotation.

Hey Gorillabat, please could you have a quick listen to the acoustic 'Orange Claw Hammer' for me if you haven't heard it already (and if you have the time)? It is one of the few Beefheart things I haven't heard, and I am gagging to know if it is as good as I've been informed. I'd really appreciate that, ta.

I know what you mean about only listening to The Fall. I am listening to Oswald Defence Lawyer (the live album, not just the song) as I write this. And very good it is too!

I am glad you asked me to do this because it prompted me to go grab the set for a listen and -- DISASTER!!! There is NO DISC FIVE! That CD case is empty!

The worst part is-- now I have to hope that somehow it's laying around in the store where I bought it (I'm assuming they must have checked all the discs for scratches), but I fear it is somewhere in the house of the dumbass who sold it to them. I will get to the bottom of this bygod!

And if I can't, I have a friend who owns this set and I'll get him to copy that disc for me.

Sorry.

Bear with me.

Oh bugger! Well, good luck with tracking it down... I hope the person who sold it to you is reasonable when you tell him what happened.

what he said

If it's any consolation, I will be hitting up my friend for a copy. I just called the shop where I bought it and they do not have the missing disc. The person who sold it probably left it in a player at their house or something and the guys at the store weren't taking a close enough look at what they were buying. Nor was I apparently.

They offered to take it back and refund it but even one disc short it was a good deal. I can live with a copy of the final disc.

Also, I distinctly remember listening to parts of this set at various times before I found my copy and I do recall there was a live radio version of Orange Claw Hammer that seemed to be just Beefheart and a guy playing clean (though electric, not acoustic) guitar. My memory doesn't serve me too well though.

I will get back to you on this, okay? Still licking my wounds at the moment....

That's fine! OCH was live on the radio, so you are probably thinking of the same thing. I got the acoustic guitar info from the Captain Beefheart Radar Station. Here is the link:

http://www.beefheart.com/datharp/albums/of...al/growfins.htm

It was F. Zappa who played the guitar too!

Such a tough choice between TMR and LMDOB. The buzz I get after listening to TMR is akin to emerging from a protective bubble after 77 minutes of mushroom ingesting immersion. Decals, on the other hand, is an experience more closely connected with the earth, although they're equally jumpingly joyous. I think I may like the individual songs on Decals a bit better, but nothing in "popular" music beats the steady hypnosis of Trout Mask, achieved by Van Vliet's unwavering conviction that he is re-inventing music. Thus I chose TMR.

The final 3 Beefheart albums are stunners, but pale alongside TMR and Decals---Safe as Milk and SP I find intriguing as preparations for TMR's frontal assault.

Beefheart is the closest contemporary I know in spirit to the Fall in ability to hypnotize listeners with cracked glass cadences and steady cacophany. I think that's why listeners to both artists have much in common in our attempts to "define" the music and its effects.

My vote for favorite Beefheart song: "Bellerin' Plain," from Decals. Like a whole new vocabulary for US train tramp song traditions, pre-dating the also glorious "Click Clack" and "Bat Chain Puller."

The live version of 'Bellerin Plain' found on Grow Fins is just insane!

I voted for 'Doc' b/c I saw him "live" on SNL around this time. I didn't fully comprehend it then, but man it was intense: 'Hot Head' & 'Ashtray Heart' on network TV!

Anyone have a tape of this as they (NBC/ SNL) never re-run the good music bits from early SNL.

Harkleroad's memoir of his days w/ the Captain is quite a good quick read and illuminating, esp on the working methods behind 'Trout'.

You can get that performance from the beefheart site.


http://www.beefheart.com/filtered/snl.htm

Thanks!--guess I should visit other sites once in a while

I don't have a copy of it, but I remember it very well. I was anxiously awaiting the appearence and the moment went by quickly. I think that was the season that also had the first tv apprearence of Devo ( and they showed a Booji boy film also) My recollection is that he was a bit nervous. He was also on Letterman (I think it was around the time of Ice Cream For Crow)...my recollection is that he seemed loaded on that one.

decals.for being hard to get

slightly off topic - but in a beefheart vein.... did anyone hear the kenneth johnston track on john peel last week? he lives in mississippi or some such place & he's v influenced by beefheart... go here to hear a bit: instrumental music from the horsehead point community the track is springtail boogie.... i am currently playing this about 20 times a day & its looping arund inside my head.... :D

the good Captain was on some sort of 'eco rant' for this interview-only appearance (or so I've been told). Letterman baited him a bit.

The problem with smarty-pants Letterman (and most American TV) is all that 'odd 'characters are treated with the same slightly condescending tone, whether you are Samuel Beckett or a person who puts quarters up your nose.

:D

Agree.

But it can make a certain weirdness safe and palatable. Brother Theodore's appearences come to mind
Such tripe has it's own insular reality and serious - or serious leaning - guests don't stand a chance. Letterman gave Harvey Pekar, the subject of the great American Splendor film of last year, a very accurate piece of advice early on in that burgeoning flap between them, and that Pekar ignored. It was a rule of audience. letterman told him to not go against him, the audience will not take his side - they'll take Letterman's. It was true. Mob mentality. It's everywhere.

Sorry for the digression - back to the" cap'n's fat dancing theresa shoes"

Gotta be Decals for me. First experience of it was digging through my dads tape collection, listening to it. deciding it was stupid but something nagging me to listen to it again. And again.
I like most beefheart even bluejeans but decals just has something I love. A sort of bleakness.

Lost that original tape years ago so I downloaded it as it is almost impossible to get on cd. Also found an instrumental version of it that is interesting.

Did anyone read my magic band interview on playlouder?

nope...dont think i have ... is it easy to find?



hello jim btw....nice to meet u at stourbridge [and ben and ste and spencer...well everyone except ed and mark...i dunno where they was]....

not comin to ireland...but will be at the stockport one

oh yeah i have read it


:beer:

That's a great interview! I really enjoyed it.

I see that Jim's attempt to ask John what he thought about the bands who the Magic Band had influenced (i.e. The Fall) was skilfully evaded! :D

How essential is the Grow Fins box-set?

Essential is too weak an adjective. Buy it if only for Frank and the Cap doing an acoustic version of Orange Claw Hammer. Truly amazing.

Some days I think that.. some days I plump for Piper At The Gates Of Dawn or Hex

Agree with Mr Marshall here (for once!).. Grow Fins is chockfull of fantastic music, unusually for that kind of outtakes release.

"Decals" ... marimba gives other-worldly sound ... best ever bass solo on "Bellerin' Plain" ... cleaner production than on "Trout Mask". Normally like my music to have rough edges, but this is an exception. Apart from the *deliberately* rough ones on TMR that is, e.g. "China Pig" - I'm in the minority who actually like that song. I think I read they spent a lot more studio time for TMR on the vocals than on the backing. This shows. TMR is the more influential album though - when people say that bands are "Beefheart-influenced" it usually means they sound like "Pachuco Cadaver" or "When Big Joan Sets Up" (or maybe something off "Clear Spot"). Most of the Captain's output is indispensable however, give or take the odd contractual obligation album.

anybody who answered trout mask is full of crap... it was "seminal" and all, but an extremely unlistenable album.

clear spot, bat chain puller, doc at the rader station, shiney beast...

It was indeed a select crew mind you, but I have fond memories of a group TMR listening-session. I'm not saying a few reefers weren't involved, but it was great night of true listening bliss. :nahnah:

Bat Chain Puller. I love TMR the most out of the others, but BCP(SB) just grows and grows on me.

'Tropical Hot Dog Night' is a great track to sneak onto playlists at parties. It *almost* fits, but heh, just not enough to bring the fun of seeing people frowning, mouthing "hotdogs?" to themselves in confusion.

Best tracks are the title-track, 'Owed T'Alex', 'When I See Mommy I Feel Like A Mummy', and 'Suction Prints'. It's got the synthetics used heavily on DATRS, but better I feel, the more easy-going blues of the crappy previous two albums (the excellent 'Observatory Crest' aside), and is perhaps the most hard-edged of the Captain's albums.

Wrong!
Define 'unlistenable'!
I listened to it last night and enjoyed it a lot. Even danced a bit.

Is Lick My Decals Off, Baby available on CD? I've never seen it.

Currently reading the Mike Barnes biography of the Cap'n, and very good it is too.

the earlier (?) version of bat chain puller (the track) is so much better than the album version. it just GRINDS :wub:

album-wise - i think it would have to be decals for me.

i don't like the stuff elsewhere when he sings tunefully & seems to be in love. they just seem slushy. i think i must be a misanthrope. sorry folks.... :ohdear:

So is it on CD?

i don't know....

shh - i have a downloaded version :unsure: