A great filmmaker/artist/campaigner. One of the best British filmmakers working in the 80's and a truly independant director/artist who, unlike all the rest (Stephen Frears, Terence Davies, etc), stayed on the outside.
He should have worked with The Fall.

I think 'The Last of England' is his best film, but in honour of my avatar :wub: I'm voting for 'The Angelic Conversation', based on the famous sonnets of Christopher Marlowe.

:rolleyes:

So what's your fave Jarman (come on...you must have seen 'Jubilee'!!!)?

a sealed book to me I'm afraid :(

I wanted to vote for Edward!
Why have you only listed the inferior sequel, Edward 2?
Boom boom!

I've always been in two minds about him and his films, mainly because I used to get lectured by pretentious posers back in the day about what great "art" they were, when I was happier sitting through Terminator.
He was a brave campaigner in ver Fatcher years - but if you read the last volume of diaries, he was a terrible snob.
Actually, I've forgotten what I voted for already!
Sebastiane, possibly.
Mainly cause
a) Toyah isn't in it
b It made me very, erm, happy, when it was on Channel 4 when I was a youngling.
c) I think all films would be improved if they were in Latin.
Ho hum...

Good piece on Jubilee and Punk here
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/filmandmusic/st...2129917,00.html

I'm guessing quite a few on here have seen 'Jubilee' - it was called "Britain's first official punk movie". It's got Adam Ant and Toyah in it (yes, both punk icons :lol: ). I haven't seen it for a couple of years...it's pretty amateurish, but it's intended that way, I think.

That's kind of how I feel. I mean, they are self-consciously arty, which usually bores me to tears; but they're also, in parts, very sensual and...erm...you know, like, not cerebral.
'The Last of England' is an extraordinary film, but really boring in parts. You just take the rough with the smooth.

The only memoirs I've read are 'Kicking The Pricks' and 'At Your Own Risk', both great.
I love him as a filmmaker more for what he achieved in such a conservative industry, rather than how good his films are; but having said that, even his "bad" films are incredibly inventive. :applaud: :beer:

That's a great article aboot 'Jubilee', haven't read that before. mmmm, Adam Ant was beautiful in that film. :wub: :ohdear:

Bloody awful filmmaker.

Only slightly better than Sam Taylor-Wood whom I loathe with a passion that burns ever brightly...sorry BK

He galvanises opinion, for sure. Me, I think he's generally a person who it's more interesting to read about than it is to see his work. That said, I've always had a soft spot for his version of The Tempest, but The Garden is my favourite. Very elegeic. I like his painting better than his films, though, and his writing better than his painting.

She should neverever have been facilitated with any sort of 'movie-making' apparatus, or such 'friends' to use as subject.

I've only seen The Tempest, and then only about half, and that just because i went to Eraserhead in support. I must say he always came across as quite a decent bloke, obviously a competent gardener of the flotsam arranging variety.

...


Just remembered he was a painter too, of the sixth-form school. Dreadful.

Jesus, don't hold back, will you!!!! :o

:lol:

Gawd blimey, o' reilly...such ire! :rolleyes:

No need to apologise Mr. M, I do understand why peeps don't like his work; like I said, I find it very tedious myself but only in parts.

He is one of the most inventive filmmakers this country's ever produced, though. Which is the main reason I love his films/style....

"Awful" in the archaic sense...yes, I quite agree! -_- :beer:

What do you think of Nic Roeg? For me, he's possibly the greatest English director.

I'll have to apologise and elaborate i suppose BK for being so forthright in my opinions.:)

That was a back-handed complement as to his gardening skills, not everyone can arrange things well, and he's certainly been an influence on gardening at large. A notion of privacy, the domestic and the personal is no bad thing—beats the effect of National Trust opulance.

I've got no basis for judging his films, or films at all, other than if i can get through them without drifting off, which i seem to do regularly nowadays. Sam Taylor-Wood's work is poor, i can't think of any purpose for her doing it.

Show me a decent painting by Derek Jarman and i'll take it all back. :D

I'm no fan of Jarman but even comparing him to Sam Taylor-Wood is an insult I reckon. Is it that they both have celebrities in their work?

I've only seen Edward 2 which I honestly don't remember much about, and Blue which I saw at the cinema and was absolutely captivated throughout. And yes, his garden is (was?) lovely in the wierdest corner of England.

only seen 4 of them and didn't like any of them much

in fact thinking about it the only one i liked at all was the tempest

There's a Derek Jarman exhibition called Brutal Beauty starting tomorrow in Vienna and lasting till early October.

Vienna is always worth a visit as I can tell from own experience. :rolleyes:

I've only seen 'Performance', 'Don't Look Now', 'Walkabout' and 'The Man Who Fell To Earth'. All absolutely amazing.
I haven't seem them for years, though. Having said that, I can still remember the effect on me of that opening sequence of 'Don't Look Now', esp. the bit where the photograph disintegrates.
I'm not sure how much of 'Performance' was Roeg's and how much was Donald Cammell. What a film that is!

Yeah, definitely an extraordinary director.

on edit: oh, hold on...I've seen 'The Witches' too. That's great. More mainstream, obviously; but still has an edge to it. I don't know what's happened to him recently, though...don't even know if he's still alive, tbh. :o

I saw Roeg being interviewed on telly just the other night on that Culture Show (you can probably see it again on the BBC iPlayer thang). He's 80 now, pretty eloquent, and persistent in his concerns; i wasn't paying that much attention but i think he's got a new film out...

Topically, i have always really liked Glastonbury Fayre (he did the filming), which despite everything is an amazingly worthwhile document of the time, and certainly how that festival and the world is so different. The way that it probably had more relationship to some sort of medieval gathering than the current one does to it then, in 1971 or whenever.
The phone call to Melanie in London, saying how they would pick her up at Shepton Mallet station seems like another world; while now they're dropped in by helicopter while talking to their people on Blu-tooth.

Fantastic!! :applaud:

I'm going to check out the BBCi thingy after. Cheers, huh. :beer:

:ohdear:

You're right. Not sure now why I made that comparison. Jarman is of course streets ahead of frauds like Sam Taylor Wood but...I'm still not keen.

Have you seen Bad Timing? :o And Theresa Russell :rollover: :rolleyes:

If it's got Art Garfunkel in I avoid it, that's my policy! -_-

:D

:o

He's surprisingly good...icy and detached. Harvey Keitel as the cop is sweaty as ever. And er (cough) did I mention Theresa Russell :rollover: :ohdear:

Every time I walk up a flight of stairs I think of Thersa Russell!

Just kidding DOT DOT DOT ........ or am I?!!

Did you see Mr Roeg on the "Culture" Show last night? There's an expanded version of it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cultureshow/

Me too. :ohdear:

Saw the clip. Thought it was interesting on the show that they gave Roeg about 3 minutes and some tosser roadtesting Booker novels (yawn) about half an hour. C'est la vie, as Theresa might have said.


One of the film executives at the time referred to it as a "sick film made by sick people for sick people" ^_^

Stairs???
You don't see her snatch, do you? :o

Eeew! :sick:

:lol:

Yeah - although it did make me hungry to see Don't Look Now again. It was funny how the ostensible tie-in for that item was Roeg's new film (Puffball) which barely got a passing mention. Judging by imdb it sounds quite interesting (potentially).

I don't suppose you've ever seen his film of Heart of Darkness? It gets roundly slated but I would LOVE to see that. The combination sounds too good to be true. (Just call me the eternal optimist).

Does praise come any higher?!

In answer to the original question - my vote goes to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iMeyKEOvBI

There's always one who has to be different. :rolleyes:

No, that's a great film. I've got all The Smiths vids somewhere. He did 'Panic' I think too. And 'It's A Sin' - PSB's.

-------------------------------------------------------

There's loads of Jarman stuff on YouTube, I hadn't realised. :thumbsup:

And 'Ask', if memory serves.

It's also a little known fact that he was the first person to film the Sex Pistols (!!!) The b&w footage that's synched to Johnny B Goode in The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle was shot by Jarman.

Different strokes BK. I've yet to recover :cry:

^_^

Just for you and Capps:



I was going to do a poll on Donald Cammell, but 1. there aren't many films, and 2. Performance will win...

Mrs. M will often say: Do I really have to do the stair scene again? And we live in a maisonette :devil: :ohdear:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I grew up in a maisonette....mind you, the women round our way were more Ken Russell, than Theresa Russell.... :blink:

The best thing Jarman ever did was the three vids for 'The Queen Is Dead' (The Queen Is Dead, Panic and There Is A Light...). Played together they make a great little piece.

Stewart Home just about sums up Jubilee:

DVD: Jubilee by Derek Jarman

This has got to be the worst 'punk' film ever made. Jarman couldn't direct traffic let alone actors and a camera crew. This kicks off with the occultist John Dee summoning up an angel (i.e. some drip in ballet gear) for Elizabeth I. So then it's off to late 1970s London to see what the future holds. The dominant social order has broken down to be replaced only by chaos, and we witness a household of punks living out their fantasy lives. There are a couple of dysfunctional brothers in an incestuous gay relationship; think what John Waters would have done with that, but Jarman does nothing. There is Toyah as the ugliest of Jarman's many ugly women, and I couldn't wait for her to lisp her way off to her dreadful pop career of the early eighties. Jordan from the Kings Road Sex shop and scene around the Sex Pistols plays another psychotic, and gets to sing as well. Meanwhile Elizabeth I and her entourage are wandering around a city where the cinematic depiction of social breakdown manages to make its source and inspiration (mainly Jean-Luc Godard movies of the mid-to-late sixties) look sophisticated in comparison. Now I know there are those of you out there who rate shit like "Weekend" but if I was gonna rip-off the new wave I'd go for Marker or Resnais (okay, so "One On One" wasn't bad, and I love "My Life To Live", but most Godard is dreck). Jarman wears his all too obvious influences on his sleeve but never comes close to matching them, and there is a particularly excruciating scene in which he pastiches Kenneth Anger. So why bother with this pile of poo? Well you get a very young Adam Ant looking cute and slightly disturbed (more of a 'natural' than an 'actor') and the old Ants (and I mean like young and savage) performing "Plastic Surgery" which is great. You also get Wayne (we're talking pre-Jayne, pre-sex change) County miming along to "Paranoia Paradise", and s/he is truly brilliant. As for the actresses, Little Nell is as attractive as it gets, Jarman really wasn't into women. I saw this screened in 1978 or 1979 in a little cinema on Wardour Street, just along from where the Marquee Club used to be. The audience of mainly punks and skins sat through it jeering, and at the end wrecked the cinema. They felt cheated and peed off. This film still leaves me feeling that way. The extra on this Second Sight DVD is a long interview with Jarman; he hardly talks about film and among other things says he should have been a gardener. All I can say is he shouldn't have been a film-maker and I got the feeling he knew he was a talentless hack and just fell into it by luck. "Jubilee" is too pretentious to make it as trash, its just awful, truly awful. Bad meaning bad, not bad meaning good.

Well, I think Jubilee isn't very good myself.
I wish I'd read more Stewart Home so I could say something terribly cutting, but I haven't.
To call Jarman talentless seems a bit rum to me, though.

What's Stewart Home's best book, the one where he really displays his talent?

The best ones are the early fiction, Pure Mania, Defiant Pose, Red London and No Pity.
The "theory" is either hard going or a piss take - often both...

Always had a soft spot for his films - Garden is my fave. Its very relaxing... solemn.
Hats off to Channel 4 who helped finance quite a few ~ who can remember when "Blue" was broadcast in tandem with the "soundtrack" on Radio 3.
Somehow, things like that just dont seem to happen anymore.