That Gipper thread was heavy going, but does it have a place here on the Fall message board...only YOU can decide...or not...

i put go into a coma....cos if it is gonna be a reminder that our leaders r shit.....cant be arsed with it.....like some political debates.........but not on here

Seeing as I forgot to put my opinion at the top of this poll :huh:
I think these fights go round in circles, and a lot of people get pretty wound up about it too. If I wanted to start a political arguement I could start one a few feet from this desk...

I generally abhor politics. Never paid them much attention. Don't feel ill-informed as I wouldn't believe most of what was being fed us anyway.

I have voted before...never FOR a particular candidate, always AGAINST someone else.

Here's my basic view on amerikan, 2-party politics:

"In my left hand is a pile of cowshit. In my right hand is a pile of horseshit. Which hand do you want to be slapped with for the next 4 years?"

I believe through voting one can have an effect on local politics, but when it comes to presidential elections I fear I must be cynical/realistic enough to say that money has changed hands, deals have been struck behind closed chamber doors...I believe the decisions are made before we ever have a part in the process. It's nice that they give us the illusion we have some power, but in truth we aren't invited to the table of corporo-media-governmental decisions.

Still, now more than ever, we have a bastard who MUST be voted out. I do believe if Bush is re-elected it will result in the breakdown of many parts of our society. THis breakdown is inevitable anyway, so maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing. I was hoping systems would crash when it turned 2000.

Political talk here doesn't bother me. I'd rather be talking Fall business, but there are plenty of thoughtful people here whose opinions I would find interesting/enlightening. (Or just humorous like Bazooka Joe's) So, it doesn't bother me. I have yet to find a bulletin board like this that sticks purely to its original intent.

Bush OUT 2004. No war 2004.

I think it's got a place here as long as it doesn't cross threads. If you don't want to read it, don't click the thread.

Political debate and awareness needs to be kept alive in the minds of the general public in as many areas as possible. Otherwise you end up with mass apathy which leads to the development of marginally-differentiated political choices which are developed only to satisfy the needs of the few. Such as here in the US and as is increasingly the case in the UK. As gorillabat correctly points out, this situation leads to pretty much everyone getting fucked over and a political system so entrenched that only some kind of painful revolution will ever break you out of it.

People should be forced to engage in politics and vote. :applaud:

mass apathy....i figured that was here to stay :(

I voted for the second choice, having tried to turn the Gipper thread into a "politics of The Fall" discussion, evidently without much success. :rolleyes: On the other hand, that might have been even more troublesome, so perhaps it's just as well.

In the time I've been on the forum, there haven't really been all that many drawn-out political discussions (except insofar as they DID pertain to The Fall, as in the Classical Racism thread... although I guess there was that "I hate Bush" thread a while back, to which I made my own hearty contribution) because everyone seems to be more or less on the same side of the political spectrum. Rex had a good point when he mentioned that you shouldn't expect much support for Reagan on a "punk" forum.

I also suppose that given the reasons people admire MES, you might not expect a whole lot of civility either. Sometimes that seems right, because there are political actors and actions that seem so reprehensible that civility no longer seems a worthwhile option. On the other hand, do people ever change each others' minds by yelling at each other? Bipartisanship can be denigrated as a bourgeois ideal (i.e., this is making me uncomfortable, so please stop — I must protect my comfort zone), but I really believe there is something to be said for at least trying to enter a frame of mind in which the other side's opinions can be understood. If nothing else, this will provide you with better ammunition for future arguments. I also think that it is possible to articulate extreme positions in a reasonable way (which incidentally I think Tony did rather eloquently).

I agree with Joseph that political discussion is important, and I don't mind its presence here, but it's worth considering your tone, which may prove to have nonephemeral whinging aspects.

In general I'm too much of a cynic to have any political side at all. I believe they're all out to do us little people. But I do vote when it comes around...but not labour anymore and never Tory...I just go for the underdogs like the Greens or something

I find the political discussions here much more interesting than stuff like "if you joined the Fall what would you play ?"

I don't mind discussion of any kind. I just don't like it when things get personal. It creates a bad atmosphere.

And I'd play bass, since your asking.

I'd play one of those guitars with two necks, only mine would have 3. And an amp that goes to 11.

politics is more important-i think ive just signd my own death warrant

the fall is a diversion...no i take that back the fall is politics- i read commentary by smith on consumerism fashionistas individual/original thinking etc etc but delivered as poetry..
but the aggro-phew could do without it-one can express strong opinions without resorting to blows

btw -i wonder if the most aggressive are the most puniest in real life?

Yes usually. Its because they feel helpless and powerless in real life and feel they have to create another virtual life in which they arent such spineless human beings. I knew one guy wouldnt say boo to a goose in real life but when he gets on a computer he trolls for dear life. He lives for "Flame Wars" as he calls them. I suppose everyone needs a hobby. But I can think of better things to do with my spare time.

that's why i am so nice on here :) ...cos in real life i am a complete bastard :finger:

Well your in good company then! :nahnah:

Bollocks. You're a little lamb.

When I was a teenager I was very active in Greenpeace, PETA, the fight against the illegal war in Central America, the situation in South Africa.... A radical chain smoking vegetarian peace punk.... when I moved to NYC in '89 I became more preoccupied w/ day to day survival as is the case when many people who move here. However I never lost my ideals although I now eat meat. Anyway after 9/11 I realized that really nothing had changed since the 80's and that all the sins of the father had been revisited on the son and most if not all of the retreads in his cabinet. The people who live in NYC payed dearly for this and will continue to do so.
Does this have anything to do with The Fall? No not really. Is this a day to day reality? Yes.

I simply find any way possible to combine The Fall with politics!
i.e. What if mes was in charge of Mexico? Would the police still let you out of jail for beer money? Bet they would!

Where's Bazooka Joe when you need him, eh?

B)

in the us surrounded by a buncha rural right wingers..i just get tired of fighting all the time..im pretty much on a permanent island here, so i try not to pay too much attention or else my hbp goes up and i get mad..this works until i have to explode periodically. the radio here is 24/7 right wing bought and sold. the problem is that after day after year after year, they hear the same one sided only messages, so those of even normal resiliance accept it as truth on the basis of repetition alone.

It's like the medieval church, views being constricted like that.