http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7114793,00.html

Teenagers who refuse to stay on in education when the leaving age rises to 18 will be forced to attend weekend detention centres under new plans

The punishment would involve sending teenagers to "attendance centres" for three hours on Saturdays in order to deprive them of their leisure time and restrict their liberty.

Headteachers, charities and youth groups condemned the plans, which were outlined as part of a Bill to raise the education leaving age.

John Dunford, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said he had "serious reservations" about the proposed punishments.

He said: "While the Government has said that no young person will be forced to stay at school, it has also indicated that it will make non-participation a criminal offence. This is wrong. Young people under 18 should not be criminalised for refusing to learn a skill.

Hmm.

Really, where are their heads at? To even suggest we criminalize truancy is simply outrageous. Some kids - but especially boys - just dont suit school, and from the age of 15 they are quite capable of being sent out into the workforce. And if they're worried they're all gonna end up on welfare, then I would suggest its just a matter of getting the right sorta programmes up and running. Hell, the welfare agency would have a pool of young and healthy labour at their fingertips; surely someone can come up with a way of utilizing that?

the knowledge of human nature does not fade with age. Those who never acquired it find no rest, and that is the problem...

"They made their kids go to school"
What we have is a tradition of not caring about the working classes education, because the dumb drones are headed for the factories anyway.
((its not fair! the working class dont get the same good education as the rich))
Whats going on here? is it,
1,The skill base has risen, and requires a better basic education?
2,Somebody really does care that the uneducated are too dim for their own good?
3,The main aim is to educate loutishness out of youngsters?
A lot of questions here, on the whole education is a good thing I would have thought.

Education is a good thing, but as we all know our leaders don't want self-education, which is the best way, and leaving school often forces people to learn on their own terms. That's besides the point: the real reason behind this is probably that jobs will be scarce and those jobs that remain will be unattractive - hence the 'herding' and enforced training that is emerging.

Detention centres, eh?

Hmmm.

And people will bit by bit accept it.

It seems to me that this is another example of the criminalization of childhood. What used to be youthful pranks are now considered felonies[esp in the USA] punishable with long prison terms and loss of civil liberties upon release.
As to forcing a young person to stay in school until 18, I very much disagree with this. Some teens are simply not suited for sitting hour after hour in a classroom and making them do it causes disruptions to that those kids want to, and are capable of, learning so that less is taught because the teacher's time is taken up with discipline.
With free high school equivalency classes widespread, these dropouts can, and often do, pick up their HS degrees later.
Most education, including college, is just a matter of getting a piece of paper that says the holder of said paper was able to with stand years of boredom and thus would make a suitable employee.

Just plain wrong.
I was good at school but seriously hated it at age 16, so left on my 16th birthday.
However, I went back at ages 19, 22 and 35.
Of course education is a good thing, if not one of the greatest things in existence. But adolescents have different pressures. Failure to realise that is a major failure of society as a whole.
This should be dropped like a fucken stone immediately.
:banghead: :banghead:

totally agree. government and taxpayer should do everything possible to make a minimum level of education (preferably quite a high level, and preferably broadly defined) a very very tempting proposition for people from all walks of life, young and not so young, but that's where it should end.

if you're smart it's not hard to sell education to those who need it, you don't need to conscript anyone - there's an inherent assumption in that approach that to be uneducated is to be stupid, and anyone with a bit of experience knowws that is not the case.

I stayed on at school until I was 18 when I really wanted to leave at 16. I achieved bugger all in those two years. I went on to do a year's training in computing and got a job through that. Times have changed now, I think, but if this proposal had come about in my day, I would have been absolutely outraged.

I still am a bit outraged, but the climate is different now. If you leave school at 16 or don't bother with further education, you are assumed to be thick. The current and the last (Blair) administration consider those who go through university to be intellectually capable, and those who don't to be pitied at best, or just dismissed as plebs at worst.

Those who leave education at 16 are treated as social pariahs now. Not much different from juvenile delinquents who have a criminal record.

The basic vision set out by the government is fine, so long as it never becomes compulsory. This is when it gets Undemocratic.

School leaving age may increase to 18

I'm all for 16-18 year olds having access to some extra training so that they get the skills they need to make a good life for themselves. If someone isn't academically inclined there is a wealth of other skills that they could learn, and if the government is going to provide support for it, a sensible kid would jump at the chance.

I'm talking about apprenticeships and the like. This country needs more plumbers, gas engineers, carpenters and electricians. Lets train our own kids so that they can earn a good wage rather than get left by the wayside, and not have to rely on immigrants from Poland to fill these sorts of jobs.

:)

This is disturbing, isn't it? ULN? UPN? MIAP? WTF! Just like the treatment of cattle if you ask me.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...e#StartComments

Every pupil to be numbered and kept on Government database FOR LIFE
By DANIEL BATES - More by this author »

Last updated at 10:04am on 13th February 2008

Comments (48)


Database: Employers and colleges will be able to use Unique Learner Numbers to access students' records - and track them until they retire from work
The exam results and personal details of every 14-year-old in England are to be put on an electronic database for the rest of their lives.


Under Government plans to be unveiled today, each pupil will be assigned a unique number which they will keep even after they leave school.

Employers and colleges will be able to use this number to access students' records on the internet to check if they are telling the truth about their qualifications.

It is hoped there will ultimately be a numbered database for every citizen aged over 14 years. Last night, the Government denied the individual numbers would be linked to ID cards. But a furious coalition of teachers, parents, opposition MPs and human rights campaigners united to condemn the "Big Brother" policy.

They pointed to the Government's abysmal track record on keeping data safe and warned the personal details of millions could be compromised. The new database will be made up of Unique Learner Numbers (ULN) which work in the same way as the current Unique Pupil Number (UPN).

The crucial difference, however, is that the UPN is discarded when the individual leaves school. The new ULN will not be and will let Government agencies track them until they retire.

It will be compulsory for every 14-year-old to have one.

Margaret Morrisey, of the National Association of Parent Teacher Associations, said the plans would horrify parents.

She said: "I suspect there will not be more than two parents in the land who would have faith in the Government that this information will be secure."

John Dunford, General Secretary of the Association for School and College Leaders, said: "Given the track record of Government IT disasters and the possibility that all these children's record will end up in Iowa, this is a worry."

The new database will let students build up a record of exam results across their whole school career.

It will be known as the MIAP, or Managing Information Across Partners, and will have two passwords.

Students will have one password to access the records themselves and could give another to employers or colleges to have a restricted view of the records.

When the scheme was first proposed in 2003, education secretary Charles Clarke said the ULN could be cross-referenced with, or the same as, the number on individual ID cards.

Critics say the move is part of a general trend towards the Government computerising records and requiring departments to share information on ordinary citizens with each other.

Information Commissioner Richard Thomas is said to be satisfied with the security for the new database.

But Shadow Schools Secretary Michael Gove said: "The Government has a terrible track record in managing complex IT programmes.

"Recent events have shown that sensitive personal data is not safe in ministers' hands.

"There must be profound worries not just in terms of civil liberties but also in terms of the security of young people with a project like this."

The Government is pressing ahead with the introduction of ULNs whilst awaiting the results of a security review into a separate planned database called ContactPoint, which would contain personal details of all 11million children in England.

The ContactPoint review was ordered last year after HM Revenue and Customs lost two computers discs containing the personal details of 25million people.

A slew of data breaches has since followed including the disappearance of 3million learner driver details from Iowa in the US.

A spokeswoman for MIAP, which comes under the jurisdiction of the Learning and Skills Council, said any plans to link the ULN to ID cards had been shelved.

A spokesman for the Department for Universities, Innovation and Skills said the aim of MIAP was to give students an online "record of achievement" they could show to universities or employers.

He said: "MIAP is supposed to be a simple record of learning which someone can use to apply to a higher education course or into the workplace.

"It is a record unique to them that makes all that information easily accessible.

"The learner will have control over what information is stored and how it will be used."

But what if someone lets off a mosquito at the detention centre?

On a serious note, I stayed on at school until 18, against my wishes, and didn't achieve anything in those two years despite getting good GCSEs at 16.

People have to do something, but what might be more constructive is having more access to careers advice where a person's individual skills (instead of academic record) are taken into consideration for the sort of job they might be suited to and training offered for that. In my experiencem, the courses schools offer are fairly limited and the school environment isn't the best place for everyone to learn.

Another way that things have changed is that the UK is not the manufacturing nation it once was. There little primary industry and relatively little secondary industry. Most jobs now require some degree of lieracy and numeracy.

So where I grew up in Lancashire for instance, a substantial percentage of the population would go work in the mines. Others would work in factories. Many would perhaps follow their parents into a family business like a shop. These options no longer exist on the scale they used to.

As for the underclass, we now choose to import it from Eastern Europe. If there are any menial jobs going, they will probably be taken by a migrant worker who costs less to employ. They will probably be more skilled and more capable that the average UK dosser who would require higher pay anyway.

I suppose the thinking is that we just don't require an uneducated British workforce anymore.

Arrested, caged and DNA tested - for using MP3

.....I have severe problem believing that 'a passer-by' dialled 999 after seeing Mr. Nixon whip out his mp3 player. Whatever happened to COMMON SENSE????

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?i...1&in_page_id=34



Arrested, caged and DNA tested - for using MP3
Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Safe and sound: Darren Nixon recovers from his ordeal A commuter was arrested at gunpoint and had his DNA and fingerprints taken simply for listening to his MP3 player while waiting for a bus.

Darren Nixon was surrounded by armed police after his music player was mistaken for a gun.

When a passer-by saw the 28-year-old get out his black Philips machine to change tracks, she panicked and dialled 999.

Police tracked Mr Nixon using CCTV. As he got off the bus home from work he was surrounded by a firearms unit, who bundled him into a van.

He was then put in a cell and his fingerprints, DNA and mugshot were taken before he was released. Although police realised it was a false alarm, Mr Nixon, from Stoke-on-Trent, now has to live with his DNA stored on a national database.

The force will also keep on record that he was arrested on suspicion of a firearms offence.

Mr Nixon said: 'It was unreal – I had a completely clean record before this and have always been a law-abiding citizen.' The mechanic said that, as he got off the bus, he saw a policeman gesture but could not hear what he said.

Mr Nixon added: 'As I got closer, I could see that two of the cops had guns. My heart was racing a mile a minute. One of them was hiding behind a car door, looking down his sight at me, and the other was shouting orders and pointing a gun at me.

'I turned the music off and they were telling me to put my hands up in the air.'

DNA records are kept for life so that they can be matched to future samples.

Even suspects who are wrongfully arrested normally stay on the database. Staffordshire Police said a member of the public reported seeing a man pull a gun from his pocket, grip it with both hands and aim.

A spokesman added: 'An operation was put in place and a man matching the description was detained.'

********************************************************

Here's a sample of the latest comments published. You can click view all to read all comments that readers have sent in.

It is never too late to admit that the real terrorist are Government a**holes, mass media, Braindead lemmings who follow stride with the days daily infusion of fear mongering.

"I was always a law abiding citizen with a clean record and now this" Let this be the notice to all law abiding citizens everywhere. You must question authority, you must demand compensation and even retribution of your governments when they lie, cheat, and imprision you falsely. Because if you don't and you think that the protesters now are simply getting what they deserve, you are only one bus stop away from "being bundled into the back of a van" at the whim of some anonomous caller (even possibly only an alledged caller)

Oh my brother, oh my brother listen to Ludwig for the insiration.

- Zimbabalouie, san Diego

You need to talk Baja Joes. Our country isn't far behind doing that stuff. Our police like to torture innocent people and children with tasers. How about that?

- Angela, US

Amazing, Guns with headphones!

For those that find it hard to hear the little voices in their heads I suppose?

- Mike, Kingston, Australia

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main.jht...gerprint114.xml

Child fingerprint checks at European borders
By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 14/02/2008

Children as young as six will have to have their fingerprints checked in order to enter or exit the European Union, under radical proposals made by Brussels.

Bruno Waterfield: The dawning of a new EU surveillance era
By 2019 all travellers, including children, will be required to enter a closed booth on their own, where their biometric details, stored digitally on microchips in passports, will be checked against their real fingerprints.

Under the plans all non-EU citizens visiting will be fingerprinted upon entry
Tony Bunyan, of the Statewatch civil liberties group, believes that the next stage of pan-European moves to tighten frontier controls is "a bridge too far".

"The idea that visitors and possibly EU citizens - including children aged six and above - should enter an enclosed box and be told what to do by machines and for computers to decide whether to let us out or not is a quite appalling proposal," he said. The new EU border security proposals herald a culture shock for many and represent a significant advance in the surveillance society.

Currently British passports contain a digital record of an individual's facial characteristics, which are checked by border guards. By the end of 2009, "e-passports" will also contain digitally stored fingerprints which can be checked against a scan of the traveller's finger tips.

Current plans envisage taking a child's fingerprints at the age of six but security officials predict that records will be taken at younger and younger ages as the technology develops. A Commission working document, seen by The Daily Telegraph, outlines the workings of automated border controls "for EU citizens in possession of an e-passport". "The traveller enters the automated gate area, possibly by presenting their passport in order to open a door that closes behind them once they have entered (to ensure only one passenger uses the gate at a time)," states the document.

Travellers will be asked by a machine to swipe their passport and "prompted to present one or two fingerprints for scanning". "The fingerprint image is captured and the system converts both the captured image and the image stored on the e-passport into templates and attempts to match them," says the working paper.

"If a good match is achieved, a second gate opens and the traveller is allowed to cross the border. If there is not a good enough match, or any other problem occurs, the gate does not open and the traveller is directed for processing by a border guard." Digital fingerprint scans will be stored in EU databases raising further privacy and civil liberties concerns.

Under the plans all non-EU citizens visiting Europe will be fingerprinted, a practice already carried out by the United States. Franco Frattini, European Justice and Security Commissioner, insisted that the new 21st century border checks were needed in a new era of high-tech crime.

"We need to facilitate travelling of honest people, while preventing terrorists, criminals, illegal migrants from entering the EU," he said. "We cannot have mafia, or traffickers, or terrorists, using better technology than our police."

Britain is expected to "opt-in" or replicate its own version of the EU controls.

A Home Office spokesman said: "We are keen to see where we can help our European partners put tougher controls in place across Europe."

Post this story to: del.icio.us | Digg | Newsvine | NowPublic | Reddit | Fark

Related articles
23 September 2007: US records UK visitors' race and reading habits
5 March 2007: Why Labour would fingerprint 11-year-olds
27 November 2006: Fingerprint checks at airports mooted

See also
Child fingerprint checks at European borders
Air marshals could be on all US planes to UK
Gordon Brown dithers over EU treaty
Germany to explain reasons for sheltering Nazi
UK to launch scheme for high-flying migrants
Comments
None of my children will be doing this without one of their parents present. This would not be a nice experience for many adults ~ let alone children who will be frightened. Whilst I support measures to protect societies and the world at large, that starts with protecting my own. If necessary we will spend our holiday pennies outside Europe.
Posted by Joan Arthurs on February 14, 2008 2:29 PM
Report this comment

This CANNOT be allowed to happen... we have a right to privacy and we all know how incompetent Governments are in managing the security of personal information. Given the recent history in Europe, in particular Eastern Europe - think Stasi - and one can only be shocked by this big brother and heavy handed approach. It has NOTHING to do whatsoever with border security - it is all about the EU superstate interfering in our lives. NO. NO. NO.
Posted by F***TheEU on February 14, 2008 2:09 PM
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Where's all the outrage? UK citizens were outraged when the US started requiring fingerprints of foreign nationals. Wouldn't this be just as outrageous - if not more? United States of Europe, indeed! The US doesn't require passports or fingerprints to travel between member states.
Posted by Bu on U on February 14, 2008 2:05 PM
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Horrible, horrible, horrible. This is not civilisation, this is slavery and state ownship of individuals. Where can we go if we don't believe in this sort of thing? "The computer says no". Great. Then you are forever a suspect.
Posted by Martina on February 14, 2008 11:23 AM
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This is now policy with the authorities. They are tasked with arresting as many people as possible on whatever pretext so that they can get their DNA on the police database. This is not me scaremongering, it's actually what is happening, according to police who arrested a chap that I work with.

The bloke who is in his mid 50s, and is the transport manager at work was arrested because his neighbour's birds had got out of their aviary. There was a suspicion that someone had let them out. The neighbour's mentioned to the police that my colleague had once mentioned that the birds could be noisy at times.

Without any further ado, they arrested him and took his DNA. Then they let him go immediately saying that they had no evidence against him. Then they admitted that they arrested anybody they could to get their DNA. This is bad enough of course, but then they have to trump up some criminal charge, like suspected of vandalising an aviary, or producing a firearm in public, which stays on record.

I thought processing DNA specimens was still too expensive for this kind of thing to go on?.

My Dad got a parking ticket even though he was back 6 minutes before the disc was up. Went as far as the courts. No evidence apart from a pair of watches. Had to balk in the end. "Can't fight city hall Jim" he said to me.
Ever see Enemy of the State feat. Will Smith? Make you think.... not in a "Sliding Doors (Feat. G. Paltrow)" way but more "Tron".
As individuals we are powerless. The sooner we accept this the better off we'll be. Just pray They use Vaseline™.

Jokes aside, we are not powerless, but we need to talk more about such matters. They rule in our name and because we are too busy, and too distracted by material matters - these events go on.

Vvillager:

"This is now policy with the authorities. They are tasked with arresting as many people as possible on whatever pretext so that they can get their DNA on the police database. This is not me scaremongering, it's actually what is happening, according to police who arrested a chap that I work with."

********************************************************************

So why are they doing this surreptitiously? I know we don't want to think of such matters, but this is quite astounding. The story about the bloke in his mid 50s being arrested because his neighbour's birds had got out of their aviary, and being DNA tested is disgusting.

I think the 'I have nothing to hide - therefore it's OK' argument is taking us i to worrying terrain.

To be honest Grimo, I don't think talking is going to do a whole heap for The Cause.
As long as people are reading tabloids and swallowing whats reamed into them from the TV, we, as a race are going to be shafted by the top few in power.
Half the population is, and always will be, below average intelligence but the worrying thing is what the average intelligence actually is. Haven't Googled it yet but I'm sure it ain't great.
If the peoples is educated...

Yes, I know that the quest to talk about such issues may be seen as futile, but looking at such reports as a homesick expat, I'm increasingly alarmed about what I would be returning home to. Being brought up on Council Estate England, I saw plenty of smart kids being tangled up in tabloid culture which, although it's up to each and every one of us to dismantle, is a sinister move to dumb down people who should protest their servitude, and makes life intolerable for thinkers.

God-damn the writers in tabloids that deliberately create non-thinkers who remain in Plato's Cave, creating those whose raison d'etre is pleasuring themselves on downloaded fantasies throughout their lives.

Most people don't talk about this kind of matter until they have been directly affected. But the goons in black are hovering closer now, according to these incoming reports.

The tabloid fodder are embedded within the wall at the back of the cave...
Blake's take below...

I semi-subconsciously bought the News of the World as I had a half hour to kill this morning. Couldn't hurt. Loads of people read this stuff daily and are none the worse off for it. Some of the headlines that "attacked" me from the pages were:-
"Blake in jail cell overdose"
"Revealed: Why Kerry marriage is a SHAM!"
"Jordan reveals secret drug terror in new book"
"Katonas marriage from hell "Bottled in posh school brawl"
"Crazed slasher spied on Kathryn"
"Sewage fish sex mystery"
"9 rape accused on run"
"Sick cow warning"

These nail biting POWERHEADLINES are irresistible to too many people. Soap operas too. The more people who spend their lives worrying and talking about things that don't actually exist, the easier it is for the powers that be to do what they do best. I don't know what that is, but I know it I was visibly shaken after a morning on the 'bloid as I "lurched from my car to the nearest bookies", a source said.

Linguistic MInimalism.

I think the standards of journalism are being dumbed down even further at a time when the state is uncovering its iron fist, previously covered by velvety gloves.

Look at this:

Another symptom of dumbing down. Foreign languages allow us to think about different concepts, but the government is content (and tabloid reading fodder) are moulded into not caring.

The BBC is no better - that website, swimming in adverts and now . Didn't that make you sick?

Like he really cares about Africa...

Still, propaganda has to cover the naughty (ugly?) rumours about his sexuality. It doesn't matter, but it wouldn't be welcome by the gay community if it were true!

Searcher08
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 75
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some more of that interview

Quote:

Frei: Why not take some credit for it?

Mr Bush: Because it's just not my nature, you know?

Frei: On another subject, Mr President, what is your comment of allegations that you were banged up the ass by a male prostitute in The White House. On several dozen occasions.

Mr Bush: I focus on results, rather than talking. In this case I saw the opportunity of bringing a new level of discipline into my Oval Orifice, introducing someone who is very good at getting on top of the situation.

Frei: Mr Bush, Iran

Mr Bush: You mean like in a race? Where position did you finish?

Frei: Is it true that you referred to the Iranian president as quote That Armydinnerjacket is an Ay-Rab fuck-nozzle unquote

Mr Bush: Aww gee, that was just the POTUS blowing off some steam. Hey is my big bad bald guy for the night here yet?

<Secret Service intervene>

etc etc



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7245670.stm

I dont think simplifying the spelling of the english language is a negative thing, per se. What prevents us from adopting the american spelling in many cases is merely cultural snobbery; there is nothing to prevent us from spelling 'neighbour' without a 'u' - it would, in fact, save time and ink: so for purely utilitarian reasons it makes sense to simplify things.

I havent checked out ur other links yet, but I assume u see this as one component of a wider movmement, the 'dumbing down' of society. But is it? I think we have to be careful that we dont condemn healthy changes in society simply because they have similarities with things we disapprove of.

Spelling and words evolve over time with the development of the culture.

I don't think what you or I have to say about it will actually change anything.

We are too old and we are not the ones integrating the changes into the vocabulary.

Personally I welcome anything that enables people of today's age to express themselves eloquently and accurately. Lets not ensnare our future Shakespeare's, Austin's, Hardy's and Orwell's with any limits to their descriptive opportunities.................

Try mkn sens of t lst txt frm yr kd

:lol:

As in Powers?



^_^

Future Shakespeares?

Gives me the shivers frankly.
I like proper words properly spelt.
If that makes me old school then I'll wear the old git hat with pride, innit?

I'm talking lingual freedom baby

Well, that's everyone's prerogative, init?

The 'old school' rules are useful for knocking smart-arses off their pedastool and the like, but other than that if peeps can get their message across quicker and simpler then 'old school' is bound for the scrapheap. Snowey's right: the future of language is in the texting generation's hands, not us 'old gits'.

George Orwell's predictions were wrong.

:D

Like I say, whatever your personal views, they ain't worth a toss. You'll get swamped by the next generation. History has overwhelming evidence to back up what I say.

Don't lose any sleep about it and roll with it.

Has good music dried up since 2000?

Has it fuck.

Why should other entertainment?

I think it will take 50-100 years for txt to fully integrate into our books and plays, and I'm sure it will only be prosperous if people are enthused by it. If they are then it will have a proper place in literature.

I laughed the other night when I caught my son receiving texts from girls in bed at 10 o'clock at night - he's only been at High School for 2 weeks!

Caught? Caught?

Is it banned?

or in Txt spk

"ct, ct, .. bnd? wtf?"



:D

No, its not banned, just highly unexpected. :lol:

To be fair, olden days spelling wasn't much cop either. A bit of that speech from the first folio version:

To be, or not to be, that is the Question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the minde to suffer
The Slings and Arrowes of outragious Fortune,
Or to take Armes against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to dye, to sleepe
1715No more; and by a sleepe, to say we end
The Heart-ake, and the thousand Naturall shockes
That Flesh is heyre too? 'Tis a consummation
Deuoutly to be wish'd. To dye to sleepe,
To sleepe, perchance to Dreame; I, there's the rub,
1720For in that sleepe of death, what dreames may come,
When we haue shufflel'd off this mortall coile,
Must giue vs pawse.

More here, if anyone is interested.

Goode worke theyre Ay Wurriedde Manne.
Of course snowey's right - language is not nor should it ever be static, it's always evolving. However, having spent my entire life learning, reading and appreciating a particular style, I do fear for loss of expression with a kind of shorthand English.
s'pose datz my prob tho, innit?

;)

BTW, 2 communicate BetA w d kds - text translator here.

Name the song:

;)
An easy one to start...