MES quote from Volume 4 mag+CD 1992:

"We were just fuckin' around," recalls Smith. "Then fuckin' Tamla Motown steam in! You know... 'about time we had another white act'. Ha ha! Dead funny. But they were pretty serious. I went to see them and everything. They had a pretty good lad in London who was well behind us. So they offered us a contract and this bloke in London goes 'Have you got any LPs?' So I said 'I'll get a copy of Hex Enduction Hour to you.'"

He creases up. The Classical, first track of Hex Enduction Hour, boasts the couplet: "Where are the obligatory niggers? / Hey there fuck face! Hey there fuck face!". The label that brought the world Stevie Wonder, The Four Tops and The Supremes listened no further, and the deal was off. Smith still has the letter somewhere. Apparently its tone of frostiness is something to marvel at.

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I'm going to say letting Gavin Friday (even his name sucks) sing on WAFWOTF, I picture a 70 year old grandmother in black dominatrix gear when I hear his voice "ova the heeeeeellll",

I reckon gavin would like this description ...lol......gavin n them virgin prunes i luv to bits.....don't like his solo stuff though.....dunno ...operatic shit ..no thx

"Where are the obligatory niggers? "........i just like that line as it stands alone, and since it occurs so early on in the lyrics, that is what i tend to do with it, read it alone.....u could read it as meaning "why havent the token black persons not arrived for the show to make me look a well meaning liberal/ cos secretly i am a rascist twat" or "where are these people we 'have to' show prejudice and hostility towards [hence 'niggers'] , cos I can't see em!"....so rather than it being a directly rascist statement, it ends up being an ambiguous statement, cos of the word 'obligatory' slapped before the overtly rascist word 'niggers' <_<

:confused: but i feel i am way off also...cos i dont understand other people's poems that well, or know history that much...which usually ends being what a poem is about [usually a 3 page history behind each line :( which i find really boring] i just like a poem with good word play...that is all...so there -_-

i was thinkin of commiting myself....but i will just be quiet in the interest of sanity

someone cut me ear in half for dancin to 'eat yself fitter' when i was about 19....i thought it was a good song:(

...or maybe I am beating a dead horse...

What comes to mind is the whole Hex-Motown-Nigger incident... Is this a rumor? I can't imagine Motown thinking about signing the Fall, so I always assumed it was false.. If it's true maybe someone more knowledgable could provide an account..

Thanks... I'd call that a faux-pas, but then again who knows if MES was bothered enough by it to care. Since I've never heard any interpretation of that line (or the song), it just kinda sits there whenever I hear The Classical. It's hard to know where the misunderstanding lies, or the degree to which there was one. It's also a little hard to listen to that song without, quickly, performing some small rationalization that 'Mark is/was never a racist' or 'That line is meant ironically' or whatever. It probably doesn't matter any more but I admit to some sensitivity on this issue.

Two-drums-Fall fuckin RAWKS, I know that.

What are some of Mark's faux pas NOT involving "this album sucked" or any of the "WMC Blob" type Fall songs.

I'm going to say letting Gavin Friday (even his name sucks) sing on WAFWOTF, I picture a 70 year old grandmother in black dominatrix gear when I hear his voice "ova the heeeeeellll", what was Mark thinking letting him anywhere near the studio? Including the Call for Escape Route EP he's on 3 tracks too, not coincidentally the three tracks I like the least.

Lyrically...if Mark isn't my favorite lyricist, he's in the top 3, but still I can't bring myself to embrace the line "and you're dying for a pee/so you go behind a tree" (unless it's in reference to that interview where he abruptly turned away from the journalist and starting urinating), Mark seems to understand when and when not to use rhyme (unlike Lou Reed in his solo career sadly) but he seems to have slipped a bit hear. Then again, I guess I can't always expect him to rhyme "leather thighs" with "the only thing real is waking and rubbing your eyes".

Yeah, I agree about the criticism, Mark handles it really well. He's actually more humble than you'd imagine. I remember Peter Hook of New Order found out he covered Jungle Rock and said "jungle jungle jungle rock-uh" to Mark and Mark laughed and admitted that "yeah, it's not that good" (I'd disagree). He also didn't mind being called "ET" to his face.

You'll note I only really came up with 2 faux pas in a 25 year career.

The Smith magic lies in his ability to render any conceivable criticism neutral - I've never read an interview or review that landed a blow he couldn't deal with, and it's always been the case that if you didnt like the last record, hang on a minute - here comes another one you probably will!

Lord, he even managed to defuse the deservedly negative initial reaction to RTL by either agreeing it was crap or making out it was such a dramatic experiment that people just couldn't get hold of what he was trying to do....and then hit back with Perverted!!- just brilliant....

Eat yr'self fitter - the only track that holds PBL back from absolute classic status - if totty bagle want to clear the floor at 3.31 am just play that one as their requisite Fall quota for the evening....

QUOTE (DustOff @ May 23 2003, 07:03 PM)

Two-drums-Fall fuckin RAWKS, I know that. ...or maybe I am beating a dead horse...

The two drum kit lineup of the Fall was never a dead horse.

Charmed to meet ya
Eat y'self fitter

THUMP-THUMP THUMP-THUMP THUMP-THUMP-THUMP
THUMP-THUMP THUMP-THUMP THUMP-THUMP-THUMP

:D

I guess he is pretty much down to earth at times. He has this admirable ability of coming back from bad positions. 1999 for example and the gigs immediately after the debacle in America..
But about Gavin Friday - I don't know much about him but I think he complements Mark well on Copped It and Stephen Song. Thought thist 'friendly visitor' worked well with them..

That Motown story may have been true but I'm a bit unconvinced..

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The floor clearer is more likely to be And This Day, I'd say.

Ibis-Afro Man?

I always thought that THE CLASSICAL was a comment on brit/ anglo culture & the decline thereof.
"You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile
razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the
wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail"
The "obligatory niggers" line is part of that. Snobish, romantic, ineffectual white men wondering where their serfs bearing silver platters are. & then Mark says "I've never felt better in my life" meaning that he's enjoying the "fall."

Mohh. I stand corrected. On two counts.


Possibly three. :unsure:

:girly:

What a weird thread. Strange repetitions, posts answering posts that come afterwards - like ancient ghosts, doomed to keep living through the same 5 secs of their lives, over and over (not people who are still around, obviously :D )