Am I sensing a certain bitterness about fighting the Empire? :D

Detachments, whilst useful, are nothing special. It is annoying to have that automatic flank charge, but then you know that there is going to be an automatic flank charge, so why are you charging the parent unit without doing something about the detachments first?

With my undead, I always aim to take out the detachments first. I don't want to lose my rank bonus. So I charge the detachments with Dire Wolves to keep them out of play for a turn or two. I magic missile them. I send my twin Banshee's after them. Sure, they won't cause panic tests, but I've kept my ranks.

And why should Skaven, Goblins and Dark Elves get detachments? That would make every army the same. Skaven and Goblins certainly shouldn't have it, by fluff they are far too disorganised to use tatics like that. And Dark Elves already have above average troops (taking humans as average, of course), so surely the Detachments would make DE too powerful?

Once again, it is one of the things that makes Empire different to use and play against when compared to all the other armies. It's like complaining about Undead being Unbreakable, or Lizardmen getting 3D6 on their Ld tests. Pointless, because that is what makes the army different from the others. Surely this game would be dull if all the armies were the same?

And one final piece of evidence: if Hellblasters and Detachments were completely overpowered as you consider them to be, then surely we would see more Empire armies than Chaos or Undead at the Grand Tournaments?

DLJ

Place your votes now!

I say way to good. they make crap troops to good. I mean skaven, gobbos, De spears etc... put up with crap troops, why should the Empire always get flank charges. Its just far to unfair, far to unfair!

And with volley guns as well ARGHHHHHHHH

Detacyhments are a cool factor in an Empire army. They aren't too great, but they aren't useless. DLJ is right that you know they have them, so should be ready for them. Either be able to deal with the counter charge and be ready with another counter of your own (on your turn of course), or shoot them until they don't matter as much.

Skaven don't need detachments. They have the ability to shoot into combat as their ability. This allows them to take very low-costing troops (slaves) to lock the enemy into combat and shoot them.

Goblins don't need detachments because their main units should be huge anyway. Crushing opponents with numbers.

Dark Elves wouldn't need them because, as mentioned by DLJ, they are above average fighters anyway. They can use crossbowmen to take away the enemy's detachment advantage.

Detachments are fine in my opinion.

Is it just me or do these polls reflect a certain bitterness and spite vs the empire?

I think the empire army is nice and balanced, and if there's one thing that may be considered too hard, it might be the Hochland long rifle, not detachments. Or volley guns for that matter.

maybe im being a bit over the top about it. But when you have been slaughtered by their shooting its near impossible to then prevent the detachments hitting your depleated spearmen! They also stop yuour bloddy spears! ARGHHHHHHHHH

Please discuss this subject instead of purely complaining, else I lock this tread.

I too like detachments the way they are. There are many ways to take them out as Dark Lord Jim mentioned (I play Vampire Counts too).

But yes they are annoying but that is because it is their way to be special, I say Night Goblin Fanatics are far worse facing, if I am little lucky my Dire Wolves can take on his detachment, but when facing fanatics I must sacrifice my entire Dire Wolf unit to drag them out and still they can get in my way the following turns. When facing Skavens they have ratling guns which cannot be target by my magic missiles and they can shoot into combat causing many cassulties on both sides but his clanrats are way cheaper. High Elf Spearmen well 3 ranks and superior weapon skill (oh no) so every army has its own style and most are very balanced.

I HATE fanatics.

Just because you are being slaughtered by the Empire does not mean that certain aspects of their army are over powered! What army are you taking? Maybe your list isn't best suited to fighting the Empire?

Either way, you have to be adaptable on the battlefield, and play on your own terms rather than playing the Empire game and marching straight into the teeth of their guns and detachments!

I'd be very interested to know what tactics you have employed against them so far....

DLJ

As I see it...
Yes, Detachments are a characteristic part of the Empire army, like Cold-blooded or Unbreakable for Undead.

BUT...Saurii are 12 pts. Skellies are 7. Empire state troops are...5! The average human points cost! Where, where do they pay for this extremely useful ability?

With elite armies, it's almost impossible to deal with the detachments, unless you're going to leave his big units alone in favour of going after detachments. Empire players should have detachments, but they should pay for the ability like everyone else pays for their special abilities.

I dont get slaughtered, by empire. I loose. i have played two games against them, both three way. Both with dwarfs. Dwarfs, the masters of shooting, just can't compete.

I mean, usually you make the emey come towards you, but you can't do that with empire because they out shoot the stunty ones! You advance forward very slowly with your super deadly troops. Then you get shot 30 times by a volley gun (happened), then you get to combat with your 4 ironbreakers and lord. Kill like 7 or 8 men, and then loose the combat because of the flank, detacments out numbers, they hurt you etc.......

I just feel that combined with their way to powerful shooting, detachments are to effective.

All other cheap troops units dont need detachments. EVEN SKAVEN, DE, Gobbos, Orcs etc....

You cost 5 points. you have swordsmen, halberdiers (so ur S4) spears and then the detachments that have two hand weeapons! And you wonder why im complaining. I play against saurii, one of the most deadly infantry units, but still empire are better when it comes to combat, because they have about 140 men and the enemy has about 20-30 left. And then even if they kills hundred of you, you win the combat. The whole empire army is stacked up against you. You just can't do well.

(Ok ok im egadurating, but you get the idea)

Just so you know, Im a bloody good player. Not some incompotant novice who doesn't know a spear from a pike.

Your incompotance aside, why don't all those firepower heavy dwarfs shoot the detachments then? Or just decimate the core units. And there's no way that T4 will help you out now, i suppose...

And isn't the gyrocopter able to take on a few cannon crew? Or rangers maybe?...

Please, I play empire, and detachments are fun and handy, but not invincible... They are t3, little armour, ld 7 troops with no upgrades available. So please, quit whining and consider developing some tactics. If you ask nicely, maybe some of the dwarf players here might help you out.. Just a hint now ;)

Gyrocopter, Yes i used it, it did quite well. It charged a cannon crew they declared flee reaction, and then it was shot down by hand gunners (unluck for me :D )

Rangers. Ys used them. 20 in a forest with crossbows. Turn 1 they killed 4 of his free company, Then took 18 casualities from 1 volley gun and fled of the table.

Yes i did use cannons but they have just so many troops that you can't get enough casualities to really effect the game.

But then i did have very bad luck that game.

I know there not invinsible. Its not about them being invinsible, its about them making a very good army even better. In the greater sceme empire troops aren't bad fighters. Thats my point. Why should they get a auto flank charge.

But perhaps a shouldn't complain so much untill i have played some one on one games. Still, Im sure you dislike some stuff from some other armies.

Im just saying they are unecesaryly good feature of a very powerful army. Dont lecture me on being usless at tactics. My win rate in close to 95%. I just find empire to have somethings that should be balanced out. Every army has faults and that is the empires.

Just like DE spearmen are usless :D , dwarfs are to hard at to much etc....

is it a 'fault' then? Maybe each army simply has distinct advantages and disadvantages, and each army needs to be overcome in a different way...

perhaps. But one can't have to many advantages. But i think your right there. But i think detachments and volley guns should cost a bit more in points. I agree though they are your advantages. Perhaps they guy I play just exploits those advantages. a lot.

Glad we got that cleared up :D