But then they are three times as likely to misfire as well. The organ gun also does the same damage at all ranges, not less than half damage to troops over 12" away.

But then it is one of the things that defines the Empire isn't it?

Which do you choose?

they are just to good for the points. there the same price as organ guns, but 3x as deadly, i mean even their missfires treat them well (30 barrles go off on a misfire). NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Well to cheap.

Nuke em

I agree with what your saying, however i thinkit should cost a few more points and the missfire chart needs reworking. I dont like they way it can missfire and fire 30 shots!

Ah, but how often does that happen? I can honestly say I have never seen it happen. Maybe I am due one soon?

I've had the "fire all barrels" misfire happen to me twice in four games. His helblaster has only blown itself up once. There is a 1 in 6 chance it will unload all its barrels into you when it misfires. It's not that improbable.

I personally think that, for its points cost (which is about considering what else it should allow the empire player to take) it should have a far more deadly misfire table. Something like this:

1: KABLAMMO!: The Helblaster explodes violently, destroying itself and inflicting S4 hits on all models within 4"
2-3: BLAM!: The Helblaster's barrels rupture, explosively decapitating its crew and estroying the weapon itself.
4: Click.... The Helblaster jams before it can fire, rendering itself unable to fire for this turn and the next. When it next fires, roll an artillery dice before any shots are resolved - if a misfire is rolled, the Helblaster jams again.
5: Dakka-Dakka-click... The Helblaster suffers a minor jam. Any shots it has made so far are resolved, but it cannot fire any more shots this or next turn
6: Coolant pipe ruptured: The Helblaster cannot fire this turn. Any shots already fired are wasted.

yeah thats much better.

except 4 should be: Can't fire this turn or next turn. any shots already fired are wasted!

thing is, my probelm isn't with the volley gun really, its with all artillery dice weapons. I mean why should Elves have multiple shot weapons that have to roll to hit when empire and dwarfs and skaven get to hit automatically. It makes no sense.

I rekon you should have to roll to hit as well as roll the artillery dice. That would make life fairer. Or fire every other turn instead/as well.

1) You have to guess ranges, which replaces the roll to hit. I agree that people can ge quite good at it, but it's still inaccurate.

2) The artillery die can result in misfires...If you roll badly with a RBT for one turn, you can still fire it the next turn. I fyou roll badly with artillery, it blows up and is wasted.

just my two cents

Actually, I don't believe you have to with the HB. The # of hits is simply based off of the distance.

true, but that's a disadvantage in itself now, isn't it? After all, the real danger from a hellblaster comes by moving within 12", not by moving within 24",and at that range you should be be to take care of it...

And I had gotten the idea somewhere the post was about all artillery...oh well must be the early hour I guess... :rolleyes:

Anyway: let's do a bit of math: a volley gun fires 3 barrels, each having a 1 in 6 chance of misfiring, thus: 1/6 +1/6 + 1/6 = 3/6=1/2, meaning the volley gun has a 50% chance of misfiring every time it is fired- something that should also be considered ;)

"- magic and shooting attacks do..."
Granted, but then you've got a better chance of hitting the machine than the crew, and there's not much out there that can damage it.

"- LOS can e blocked by terrain"
Assuming that the empire player sets it up near terrain, which, as far as i'm concerned, isn't a very good idea. They could also set up other units to prevent you from getting close, but I think we're discussing the HB on its own merits here, are we not?

"- look at statistics, it'll never fire 30 shots, especially not at long range when the number rolled is halved if I'm correct"
The fact that it's UNLIKELY(not impossible) for a full 30 shots to happen doesn't really matter, since the potential is still there. This goes back to the psychological effect I mentioned earlier. I wasn't talking about me, personally, as it's something that has to be dealt with by all player as soon as the HB is placed. Who would really be willing to send their fast cav at a machine that costs roughly the same amount and has a better than 50% chance of wiping them out in one round of shooting?

"- a cannon can easily kill a dragon, easier then a hellblaster can, and it's cheaper..."
A cannon also can't wipe out units of fast cav, flyers, skirmishers, and even small ranked units in one phase. It also can't hold a flank of your army, which is someting that a HB is definitely capable of.
Think about it.

As I've heard a couple of people mention, the 50% misfire isn't worth the point-reduction it obviously gave the HB. The point cost is entirely based off of the average damage dealt, whil completely ignoring the psychological effect of the HB on the battle.

Honestly, as a High Elf player, would you even consider sending a unit of Reavers to attack a HB? On their own? Knowing that even a single good shot will wipe out the entire unit?

Awaiting a response...

As a High Elf player, I would send a couple of great eagles in the general direction of the hellblaster. :D
And the psychological effect is something you have to learn to deal with , you know...

The thing is, yes it has a 5)% chance of missfiring, but when it does, it has a 1/6 chance of firing all remaining barrels.

The thing is evil.

No weapon should be able to wipe out that many people with that much ease, and its ony 125pts.

And it can fire every turn as well!

don't forget the disadvantages now either. I play empire , and I agree it is powerful, but it can be stopped by:

- attacking it from beyond 24", which is it's max range
- staying out of line of sight
- attacking it from 12-24", where it's effectiveness is much reduced
- malking the crew run away

Nothing has a charge ranger of over 24" does it?

You can't get out of its LoS as it can pivot freely.

It can still fire 30 shots at over 12" Its not about that strength, it is about the shots.

The fact remians that in one round of shooting it can kill over 3 times its points value of troops!

- magic and shooting attacks do...
- LOS can e blocked by terrain
- look at statistics, it'll never fire 30 shots, especially not at long range when the number rolled is halved if I'm correct (don't have the book right here)
- a cannon can easily kill a dragon, easier then a hellblaster can, and it's cheaper...

The hellblaster costs more and is more in need of luck. That's something everybody forgets: you need luck to make it work well...

And considering long range attacks: any S4 attack can damage the machine too...

"The hellblaster costs more and is more in need of luck. That's something everybody forgets: you need luck to make it work well..."

Define 'well'. Average rolls will result in the destruction of most units sent to attack it, so I don't really think luck is any more of an issue here than with the cannon.

Granted, though, the cannon requires more skill to use, if that was what you meant.

"And considering long range attacks: any S4 attack can damage the machine too..."

Yes, they certainly can. But in order for it to happen, you'll generally need 6 hits, and the HB has 3 wounds. 18 hits. Expecting the empire player to sit still?

Well, I don't expect him to stay still, but the hellblaster does cost 125 points and a rare slot...

And the chances of it misfiring are pretty big after all.

Besides, considering working well: at long range it does +- 7 hits at -2 save... I've seen worse now... It's just the potential that is great, but so is the potential of gobbo fanatics, that's why people complain about those too. It's terrible when you're facing a lucky hellblaster, but there a lot more times when the stupid thing will simply blow up too, it just doesn't engrave itself in people's memory as much as having their 15 knights killed in a single salvo :D

I have seen it miss fire in shot one, and then fire 30 shots of! I mean its a misfire table, not a super good luck table.

I have seen it paste units worth 3X its cost in a turn.

Remeber it is 7 HITS! Not shots. They have hit. They can through armour and wound most things on 3+ or 4+.

Seems prett awsome reallt doesn't it! :angry:

7 hits for 125 points is nice, but the 50% misfire chance is alot less... With 250 points of mssile weapons I bet I could do a whole lot more then 7 hits....

And the misfire table has 1 (ONE) good result on it....

It a misfire table!

Its not meant to be good! Name one other warmachine that has anything good on its misfire table.

Not only is a it a good result, its the best one possible. Its bloody awsome.

the doom diver. You can still fire on some occasions. And all the pthers have a "don't fire this turn" result, which isn't half bad either, compared to your wae machine exploding.

But its still negative, its not a good result.

Fre all remaining barrels at full is a VERY GOOD result. Its the only positive result on any warmachine in the game. But why s it there? I mean the dwarfs make things better but yoou have all the better stuff! It makes no sense!

yes a major weakness for ALL warmachines is the vulnerabiltiy of the crew

Heh, I just found the ultimate way of taking out artillery batteries. S'pose it wouldn't work against dwarves very well, but basically what you do is take 2 lvl 2 skink priests and pound the goddam artillery until its dust with the Comet!. I got off 3 comets in one game against a single artillery battery, smashed it to tiny itsy pieces.

I dont remeber that game?

Ws it the seige against James James jnr?

But its hard to kill the crew, and I mean, against a volley gun, if your in range to attack it in any way then you is dead! Blam!

No, that was today - I played Robbie. His wyvern is bloody amazing!

I think the 30 shot 'misfire' should be in a random direction - as per the Skaven lightning cannon. That would balance things out a little....

Yes I agree, a randome direction. or better, at a unit chosen by the opposition. Yes, you shoot me, and thirty shots hit your units!

That'd be too much. And very skaven. If they had to roll to hit on the barrels fired by misfire, I think I'd be a lot more satisfied. It could be representing the crew trying to keep it pointed at the target as it bucks wildly and fires everything at once...

thats is a nice idea.

Or better ifs if it doesn't have a positive result on the misfire chart at all.