I know these kind of things have been done a million times before, but I want this one to be a debate with a difference. A serious one. No, really.

So that we don't get silly posts which read something like 'Strigoi rulez', or whatever, I want you to put the Bloodlines in order of preference i.e. which you think is hardest/which you prefer, or whatever. I have already had a go at this, so now it's your turn. Oh, and don't forget to justify your choices.....

Here's mine:

1. Strigoi rulez!!!111 Everyone here will be really surprised (tongue in cheek) to find out that I love this bloodline. Many free benefits and great bloodline powers turn Strigoi into killing machines against rank and file, which is precisely what VC need to win games big time.

2. For me, I have to say Blood Dragons. Ok, the fact that they always have to challenge is really, really annoying. But they are very good at removing enemy characters, which is one of the greatest threats to your CR that there is: you don't want enemy characters slaughtering your own rank and file, so what better way to do this than take them out in a challenge? As I don't rate magic that highly in my list of priorities for VC, the fact that VC aren't such great magic user's isn't a big deal.

3. I'm slowly becoming a fan of the "Fighting Necrarch" idea, which basically consists of the most powerful necromantic magic users in big blocks of Wights. It is in no way influenced by the fact that I have the Zombie Dragon model waiting to be used. I feel a little guilty at putting Necrarch at #3 after advocating low-magic VC armies for so long.

4. Von Carstein have very useful blooline powers, but aside from Walking Death they have too little to contribute to the combat resolution score for my liking.Can't comment on the SoC variant list, as I haven't used it yet due to disliking SoC lists in general.

5. Lahmian's are at the bottom, as I expect them to be for the most part in this debate. Again, poor bloodline powers and very dew benefits handicap this bloodline to the point where they can't really win games very easily.

Cheers,
DLJ

T-1. Blood Dragons, have great WS and are physically stronger than the other bloodlines making the challenging thing an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

T-1. Strigoi, ridiculously powerful killing machines with very few disadvantages.

Between the Blood Dragons and the Strigoi you can slaughter anything you come into contact with, which is essential in protecting the weaking necromancers that hold your army together. To me, it is impossible to decide which is better, but not a problem to say they are the best.

3. Lahmians, although they have reduced combat ability, they can reduce their opponents combat ability as well, definately not as powerful as they could be.

4. Necharchs, magical superiority cannot be argued with, but without an army to back it up it doesn't really matter. The vampire count's units are just too weak to support a magic based army. As a bloodline great, as part of this army not so much.

5. Von Carsteins are just too bland; no advantages, no disadvantages. Still strong, they just dont add enough to the army to be as useful as the other bloodlines.

[EDIT] Thank you for telling me that Boris, it has been a while since I last saw the book and that fact slipped my mind, I have altered my selections accordingly.

@ Luc Arkhame: the Blood Dragon and Lahmian army selection advantages you are referring to apply only to the appendix lists in the back of the VC book. Those lists aren't exactly balanced or legal. Hell, if they were, surely an all-necromancer army would be the best choice because of all those reduced-cost troop types!!

I agree with your comments about the Vampire Counts von Carstein list, but IMO the new SoC Sylvanian list gives them character, and introduces an entirely different way of playing Vampires. Von Carsteins are no longer the 'vanilla' of the Vampire flavours....

1)Von carstein.good bloodlines,can be good at magic and combat and have a great fluff,waging war against the empire.And are probably the most vampiricresembling the bam stroker Dracula.

2)Lahmians.Many people hat them because their bloodline powers are essentially the same,they are weak in combat,But I still think they are cool and can be effective,and have great fluff.

3)Strigoi.I love the feral and popwerful feeling these guys have.

4)Blood dragons.I put these 4th because everyone uses them.they are too much played other bloodlines need to be used.people need to show mor variety.

5)nechrachs.I hate their models.I hate their fluff.I hate their rules.I hate them

Well, I think everyone knows which I'm going to put at the top.

The real question is, how am I going to rank the bloodlines up? I think I'll do it by personal preference, since the effectiveness has been done to death and people have many differing opinions. I think Von Carstein is the most effective out there, and if not it's certainly nowhere near the bottom, but obviously people don't agree, so to each his own.

1. Von Carstein - We are the aristocrats of the entire race of Kindred everywhere. We are the rulers, the nobles, the lawmakers. Any province governed by us experiences progress and advancement, and not just death, death and more death. Someday we'll even get our own Runefang, and then you'll see... mwahahahahahaha. Ha. Ha. Ah-ha. Blah.

2. Lahmians - Oooooh! We're sexy! We're pretty! We're beautiful! We're cute! We suck your blood and make you comfortable while doing it! More than comfortable! We slay and suck with style and panache! Every von Carstein noble worth his haemoglobin has one of us as his "special personal attendant"! You like us! You love us! Yay us!

3. Blood Dragons - I say, jolly good, old chap, would you like to have a cup of tea? And a crumpet to go with it! I say, crumpets are just the thing for us stuck-up prissy - ahem. I meant, honourable and refined gentlemen. You, sir! You there with the big pointy hat and the funny-looking mirrored amulet what you're waving at me! I challenge you, sir! Yes, you! Stand and fight, you craven heathen knave... Wait. What's this you're saying. You use my stats now? And I use yours?

... Bugger.

4. Strigoi - Rrrraaarrgrgh! Arggghaaghaaz! Rararrrrgh! Ghhaaaarrggh KILL! Grrraaagggh KILL!*

*A typical Strigoi's Reikspiel is not usually very clear. I think DLJ will have to translate this one.*

5. Necrarchs - They will pay. They will all pay. I will have my revenge on them... eventually! Those... those other vamps who used to be nasty to me. Janus Turkov, that big nasty Strigoi, who used to beat me up and take my lunch money all the time, while his nasty "son" Jain looked on and laughed. That effeminate, stuck-up pig Valerius Harkon, who didn't invite me to his 210th birthday party and orgy just because he thought I had no fashion sense. That evil, arrogant son of a female dog Lefred von Carstein, who laughed at me all the time and didn't invite me to his wedding annivesary party. Which all the others attended. Including... including...

... Marta! Dearest Marta! Luscious, exquisite gem of the night... Oh, why didst thou reject me??? You broke my heart! You foul female dog! You will pay! You will all pay! When I kill everyone... every single living being on the face of the planet... then all of you will be starved out. Then I'll be the one laughing! I'll laugh! I'll laugh! All of you will be begging to get some blood from my stores! Begging!!!!

You will all die!!!!!!!1111 Ph34r m3!!!!!111

I think we have all had a mildly disturbing look into the psyche of Derfel there, ladies and gents. A couple of minor points that need to be addressed here: Jain Turkov is actually Janus' wife. Jhim Turkov is Janus' son.

I believe that the basic translation of that Strigspiel is "KILL!" with overtones indicating evil and large amounts of blood and internal organs flying every where. Did you know that Strigspiel has 4000 words for "Kill" and rising?

I'm taking most of your personal preference is based upon the background of the individual bloodlines, or does it take into account their individual powers and skills as well?

Cheers,
DLJ

i just want to know who or wat army does this adn at item makes it so???
ohh and most people know my ideas....

I believe Derfel was making a reference to the Empire item "Van Horstmann's Speculum", which can turn a lowly wizard into a fighting machine and a mighty vampire into a pathetic weakling during a challenge. A very frustrating item for a BD to face.

Cheers,
DLJ

Oh yea, Van Horstmann's Speculum is very nasty versus Blood Dragons. Basically BDrule, it can only be used in a challenge (hence why it is particularly good against blood dragons) and you are forced to swap Ws, S, I and A characteristics with the wizard carrying it. So your BD lord is now Ws3, S3, I3, A1; fighting a wizard with Ws10, S5, I8 and A5; or better if you have chosen the +1A or +1S bloodline powers....

@ BDRule: we know you love Blood Dragons, but I would be interested in how you rate the other bloodlines. This isn't about which one you like best, but rather your views on the advantages/limitations of all the bloodlines.

So let's hear what you have to say....

THeres alot to cover but the most important is that strigoi are better iron snews and summon ghouls but theres too much to cover so im not spamming but I think strigoi go further.

CyA

Minor correction for the Bulletdodger.

The Speculum exchanges basic stats only. So if the BD had a great weapon, he would have s5 after the switch. And with the extra additions to attacks and strength, a strict reading of the rules would exclude those from the switch. In the same manner that stat bonuses given by magic items aren't affected by the switch, those bestowed by bloodline powers aren't either. Basically, "basic" stats is just that.