Hey guys,

I figured that rather than shelling out money for an entirely new army, I'd just revamp my first army from way back in 5th Edition, which happened to be Bretonnians! As I was young and naieve back then, it was a real min-maxed list: I made full use of the 75% character allowance, and used the knights simply as a vehicle to get my characters into combat.

Having grown up and gone through two other armies, my eventual return to the Brets should be a little fluffier, and I've drawn up this list with the aid of thegreatuncleanone.com

Duke. Heavy armour, shield, Heartwood Lance, Virtue of the Joust, Insignia of the Quest, Questing Vow, barded horsie. (236 pts)

Paladin. BSB, Heavy armour, Banner of the Lady, barded horsie, Knights Vow. (174 pts)

Paladin. Lance, heavy armour, shield, Knights Vow, Virtue of +1 CR, Barded horsie. (115 pts? I'm not quite sure if that's correct, but hey, I don't have the book quite yet).

Damsel. Lvl 2, two scrolls. (155 pts)

7 Knights of the Realm. Full command and normal equipment. (192 pts) These guys are joined by both Paladins.

Two units of 12 Archers with those stake thingies. (2 lots of 72 pts, so 144 pts total there).

19 Men-at-Arms. Spears, light armour, shields, full command. (122 pts) Damsel guard.

8 Questing Knights. Full command and normal equipment. (251 pts) Duke joins these guys

3 Pegasus Knights. Normal equipment, Gallant. (165 pts)

9 Grail Knights. Standard, musician, War Banner, normal equipment. (397 pts)

I reckon I have about fifty-ish points left over, so I'd like to get a shiny magic banner for the Questing Knights, or maybe some more peasants. Is the army list viable, or is it a complete load of tosh?

Cheers,
DLJ

Seems fine to me, Jim. Maybe a little low on hitting power, but I say that only because I don't like Grail Knights- too few models, methinks.

But that's me. I'm sure Chili will disagree with me, and seeing as I've yet to play a game with the Brets, I'm just talking babble. :)

Hmmm... well, it seems a decent army. A rules point: your General has the Questing vow, therefore cannot use a lance. I'm pretty sure that applies to magical lances too.

What I'd do to improve this army is:

1. Drop the +1 CR paladin.

2. Use his points and the extra points you say you have left over to buy another unit of 8 KotR, with full command. Knock the Insignia and the Questing Virtue off your General, as he can no longer use the Insiginia, doesn't need the vow and we need to save some points. Stick him in this unit. Use any other points you have to put the last necessary models on the existing KotR to get them up to a full lance. Drop the Questings down to 5-strong - they can now work as a support unit, as a lance (with the Damsel making up the back rank - see below) or a line, whatever's necessary. I say do this because you'll need to buy new Questings, and they're expensive, so they're the best models to drop down to a lower size.

3. Drop one Scroll, get the chalice of Malfleur. You'll find having four dispel dice useful, and on average you should only take 1 wound throughout the course of the game, so it should be alright. Saves five points, too. As she's a dispel caddy, stick her on an unbarded horse and plonk her in the middle of the Questing formation, giving her better protection and increasing their size to a full lance. I've been following this on a calculator, so far we're 26 points under.

4. Use those 26 points to give the KotR accompanied by the Duke the War Banner. The Grail Knights don't need it, they're deadly enough. Instead, give them the equal-points Conqueror's Tapestry, which absolutely rocks on GK (trust me).


Finally on GK - listen not to Benedictus, for he will lead you astray! a lance of 9 Grail Knights is great, really, especially when you've gort so many other units. My GK (same size, but with a Paladin) recently tore right through 20 Orcish spearmen, leaving only five alive, in one round of combat - now that's combat power!


With the army changes I have outlined above, you'll have:

4 knightly units
3 Peasant units
Great hitting power (KotR with the Banner of the Lady, KotR with the WB and a Duke, Questings, Grails - all those units hit insanely hard).
Good numbers and support
Flexibility

Also, you won't need to buy many models at all - five Questings, and a box of KotR, and you're set (I'm assuming you have 5th Ed. Grail Knight models).

If you are not allowed a mundane version of a something you cannot have a magical version. From what I can see Chili has gone through it all but I would like to see a couple of bowan dropped.

I might well go with the changes you've suggested Chili. Of course, my whole army could change when I get the army book! Glad to see you thought it was hard-hitting though, thats the kind of thing I like.

To Prince C: I've got that many archers because that is how many I got with the 5th Edition Warhammer boxed set. I don't want to spend too much money on this army, so I'm using everything I have already!

Cheers,
DLJ

If you have 5th edition bowman you won't have the stakes.

I dont collect bretts but to me stakes seem pointless. Why bother defending such a missile unit? You'll still get beaten by anything out there, and even if you dont, you aren't shooting as you'll be held up. Also you have no war machines to protect so it will be pointless.

IMO skirmish is much better. A unit of 12 can be plonked anywhere you want, on the edge of your deployment zone preferably as you want extra range. Then you can group them all into a tiny circle and they can all shoot! With 360 line of sight! No more worrying about finding a hill, or making a huge long line of archers, or having to wheel (-1 to hit) in order to see something.

Thats what I think anyway.

Question:
With chili's ideas, which sound really cool btw, won't your men at arms be left in the dust trying to catch up with the rest of your army?

@Xarhain - I agree with you here, and I think one of the bowman units should definitely be upgraded to skirmish. However, in other armies they can be useful - armies with Trebuchets, to be precise. Also, they're characterful, cheap, and help against things like Shades trying to take out your missile base.

@Gorod: Here's what I'd be doing:

The knights do not immediately race ahead and charge. While the M@A keep advancing straight towards the enemy, the knights are using their massive manouvreability to

a) set up the ideal charge for each unit
B) pull the enemy line completely out of shape.

The M@A will hopefully arrive one turn after or on the turn of the general charge, either swinging an otherwise protracted combat or aiding the knights by pulling enemy attention away and giving flank charges. Essentially, they support the knights with a direct attack, marching straight forwards while the knights move to the most vulnerable points.

cool, makes me kinda want to start an army with cav.... nah!
NEEK NEEK!