Dwarf Lord @ 225 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armour; Shield

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

Runic Weapon
-Master Rune of Swiftness
-Rune of Cleaving
-Rune of Fury

Thane @ 99 Pts
Great Weapon; Gromril Armour; Shield

Runic Armour
-Rune of Resistance
-Rune of Stone

Runesmith @ 137 Pts
Great Weapon; Gromril Armour

Runic Talisman
-Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

20 Warriors @ 214 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield;

Standard; Musician;Veteran

15 * Warriors @ 201 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;

Standard; Musician; Veteran

10 Thunderers @ 140 Pts
Dwarf Handgun; Light Armour

10 Dwarf Crossbowmen @ 120 Pts
Crossbow; Light Armour

19 * Longbeards @ 355 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

Standard; Musician; Greatbeard

Runic Banner
-Rune of Battle
-Rune of Sanctuary

Stone Thrower @ 135 Pts

3 Crew
Light Armour

Engineering Runes
-Rune of Accuracy
-Rune of Penetrating

2 Bolt Thrower @ 90 Pts

6 Crew
Light Armour

1 Flame Cannon @ 140 Pts

3 Crew
Light Armour

10 * Warriors @ 141 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;

Standard; Veteran

Dispel Pool: 5

Casting Pool: 2

Models in Army: 106


Total Army Cost: 1997

What I want is this to take on Skaven, so I've got war machines that are best use vs large blocks of infantry, a few missile units to help there as well. Then the basic idea is to probably use either the bear trap or the Enduring Mountain tactic, with the Longbeards as the ancor.

The Larger GW armed warriors will be on their flank and other smaller one will be on the flank of the HW armed warriors, their main job will be to flank charge units that engage their brother unit or to block charges.

The lord has been armed so he can deal more damage with more attacks and he should be able to survive most enemie characters in a challenge. He'll be leading the Longbeards and the thane will be in the other units, but is as yet undecided which. The runesmith will either go in a unit or stay near the back with the war machines.

So any suggestions on what would be better vs Skaven would be helpful, also I would like any feed back from Skaven players to see what they think. Cheers to you all.

Lemme see what we got here.

Dwarf Lord @ 225 Pts
Hand Weapon; Gromril Armour; Shield

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

Runic Weapon
-Master Rune of Swiftness
-Rune of Cleaving
-Rune of Fury

Looks decent to me. I generally prefer a great weapon and MR of spite, but I like having lots of models. Personal taste here.

Thane @ 99 Pts
Great Weapon; Gromril Armour; Shield

Runic Armour
-Rune of Resistance
-Rune of Stone

I wouldn't spend the 25 points on resistance here. and probably not the shield, either. 3+ should do you fine as long as you're in a unit.

Runesmith @ 137 Pts
Great Weapon; Gromril Armour

Runic Talisman
-Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

That's how I field him, too :)

20 Warriors @ 214 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield;

Standard; Musician;Veteran

Good, though I prefer my units to be multi-capable. It's not like you're going to be picking the combats.

15 * Warriors @ 201 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;

Standard; Musician; Veteran

Same as above. Also, 15/16 is small, especially against Skaven.

10 Thunderers @ 140 Pts
Dwarf Handgun; Light Armour

Drop the armour; it's not going to do any good.

10 Dwarf Crossbowmen @ 120 Pts
Crossbow; Light Armour

Same as above, though I'd use the points gained to turn these ones into Thunderers, too.

19 * Longbeards @ 355 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield

Standard; Musician; Greatbeard

Runic Banner
-Rune of Battle
-Rune of Sanctuary

Alright, personal taste again. I'd be using Hammerers for the Stubborn, as you're going to be horribly outnumbered.

Stone Thrower @ 135 Pts

3 Crew
Light Armour

Engineering Runes
-Rune of Accuracy
-Rune of Penetrating

So many points for what amounts to a minimally improved efficiency. You could almost get a second for the points you've put into the runes.

2 Bolt Thrower @ 90 Pts

6 Crew
Light Armour

Works for me.

1 Flame Cannon @ 140 Pts

3 Crew
Light Armour

It'll work well for the turn or two it'll be able to shoot, anyway.

10 * Warriors @ 141 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;

Standard; Veteran

Same as above; make them bigger or drop them. Skaven won't be giving you flank charges.

Dispel Pool: 5

Casting Pool: 2

Models in Army: 106


Total Army Cost: 1997


I'd be doing my best to field as many models as possible. Rats can't stand up to proper Dwarfen infantry, and you need to take advantage of that rather than letting them outnumber you 2or 3:1. I'd try to have at least 4 solid blocks before even worrying about shooting, and I don't think the Bolt Throwers will do too much as they'll be hitting on 5's.

Thanks for your comments, right now to reply:

The lord doesn't have a GW simply because I didn't see it's worth, Skaven's highest T is 5 (Plague Preist) the rest are T4 or lower. So by giving him the rune axe he'll be able to step forward strike first (even before they do) and with 5 S5 attacks he should be doing some damage, and the armours there just to increase his survivablity.

My thane I was wondering about, I want pure hitting power and 3 S6 attacks definatly cover this. But I was think of maybe giving him a rune axe with Runes of Fury and Cleaving on or 2 Runes of Fury, simply to get more attacks and thus reducing rank. Or another thing I was considering is making him BSB with MR Of Fear and Rune of battle, this should hopefully reduce the number of hits I receive in combat.

The main block of warriors is to make them last as long as possible, with HA, Shield and HW they get a 3+ save in combat. This should make them quite hard to shift, and being within the LD of the lord they should be on LD10. Now the smaller units will be basically for flanking, I'm sure they might not get the chance but if they do a unit of GW armed warriors charging the flank of that big unit engaging my Longbeards will add lost to the CR. But I do see your point on the unit size. Oh and you can't remove the Light armour from the Thunderers or Crossbowmen, it's part of their gear.

I would like Hammerers but at the moment I don't have any, so it was either Longbeards or Ironbreakers. I prefer Longbeards the extra S and the immune to panic may come in handy, but I was thinking of maybe swapping the runes at the moment for the Rune Of Slowness. This would hopefully mean I get a chance to charge first and to use those GW without loss and to full effect.

As for the ST the idea is to make sure it hits as much as possible, so the Rune Of Accuracy will help here. But I suppose the Rune Of Penetrating could go the extra S isn't that useful vs T3 troops. And I stick by the Flame Cannon it maybe only able to fire once or twice, but the fact that it's a template weapon, and kill them easy and will cause a panic test makes me think it's worth the pts.

Now I'm not sure if it's too few troops but I'll give it a go. Now if you could suggest one that could take on a balanced Skaven army, I'll be listening but if you could make anymore suggestions they will be greatly welcomed.

I would suggest moulding the two smaller units of warriors together as 1: a larger block of infantry would be more useful against a force which is unlikely to have exposed flanks.

The Rune of Slowness for the Longbeards might be a good idea. Pity you don't have any Hammerers....

Maybe think about taking a gyrocopter / rangers / miners to slow down the enemy advance. These guys may ensure you can fire your flame cannon more than once/twice and if they find themselves on the wrong end of a lightning cannon or ratling gun?....well at least that's firepower that's not being aimed at the bulk of your force

Hmm.. I'm unsure about make the two units into one, while this will take time to destroy if it breaks then that's taken half of my infantry with it. And this will leave me in a worse position. If my smaller units can't get flanks then they will go head on and if they can stop other units flanking mine even for just one or two turns I think they'd be worth it, also as the Skaven overrun/pursue they will come into shot range of the BT, Crossbowmen and Thunderers. But I'll consider making larger units.

'Tis a shame I have no Hammerers...

I was considering the Gyrocopter, I was thinking maybe it could fly over take out the Jezzail then slow the main body of rats down while steaming them. Now

Miners I'm unsure of, for me I find them to unpredictable and also I would have one less block of infantry to start with. And if they turn up on the flnak he could easily sent rat swarms/giant rats etc to tie them up and keep them out of the game or if they went after the Jezzails that's all they would do, they wouldn't be quick enough to get to their own lines to help.

And as for Rangers, I really don't like them. I find they are too expensive, if I give them crossbows they will be quite a bit and only 5 will be firing per turn thus wasting the cost of 5 models (being as the best place forthem is in wooded terrain etc). Or if I gear them up for Combat and shooting they will be very expensive and quite easy to avoid, thus wasting their pts.

pretty good i give it 7 / 10

Balder: People aren't just looking for numbers. They want opinions and suggestions.

I was thinking of shields, not the armour. Just ignore that.

I definitely agree with Longbeards over Ironbreakers; higher strength is only a good thing.

Gyrocopters probably won't be worth too much here, assuming your opponent takes Jezzails. Having it crash first/second turn is too much of a hazard.

Keep the Miners and Rangers out; they'll just get outmaneuvered and destroyed.

I'd probably avoid a runic BSB, too. If you want the reroll on breaks, fine, but I like him having MR Swiftness and Cleaving and Stone on the armour.

Aside from that it seems like you've got a decent plan, but if they have more than 3 or 4 infantry blocks, which most rat armies do, you'll be in for a long game.

Cheers, the BSB was just a idea I was playing with. But I think I've got enough hitting power, like I said I don't really like Rangers (I don't really know why) and I think miners would be to easily ignored or outmanouvered. I've got Ironbreakers but I still don't think they're as good as the other two, the only think they have for them is their save in combat.

Oh, and I don't mind long, hard to win games. All the more fun to be had :D

Whoops, it turns out I've made a miscalculation (damn army builder). So here's the same list with a few adjustment:

Dwarf Lord @ 225 Pts
General; Gromril Armour; Shield

Runic Weapon
-Master Rune of Swiftness
-Rune of Cleaving
-Rune of Fury

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

Runesmith @ 137 Pts
Great Weapon; Gromril Armour

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

Runic Talisman
-Rune of Spellbreaking (x2)

Thane @ 72 Pts
Great Weapon; Gromril Armour

Runic Armour
-Rune of Stone

20* Warriors @ 205 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield;
Standard; Musician; Veteran

20 * Warriors @ 245 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;
Standard; Musician; Veteran

10 * Warriors @ 135 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;
Standard; Musician; Veteran

10 *Thunderers @ 150 Pts
Dwarf Handgun; Light Armour; Shield

10 *Dwarf Crossbows @ 130 Pts
Crossbow; Light Armour; Shield

1 Stone Thrower @ 110 Pts
3 Crew
Light Armour

Engineering Runes
-Rune of Accuracy

2 Bolt Thrower @ 90 Pts
6 Crew
Light Armour

20 * Longbeards @ 360 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield;
Standard; Musician; Greatbeard

Runic Banner
-Rune of Slowness

1 Flame Cannon @ 140 Pts
3 Crew
Light Armour

Dispel Pool: 5

Casting Pool: 2

Models in Army: 108


Total Army Cost: 1999

have you have tried giving a thane the battle standard and a runic standard. I usually do and it seem to pay off. I would recomend the Master rune of Stromni Redbeard( +1 combat resultion to all units within 12 ").:lol:

There is something i don't understand the cost is for units of warriors that are 20-20 and 10 in number(9 isn't possible for a unit)but in your last list you wrote 19-19- and 9 warriors and also 20 longbeards not 19...i
Personally like Vriishnak said i 'd prefer 2 units of thunderers,but other than that it's a very good list
BTW i think that vs Skaven Ironbreakers may be better because you don't need high strenght to cause wounds and you will be more than goodly protected against skaven attacks...

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out, it's because on the army builder it puts the champion underneath and I've adding him in the same line as the rest of the commnad. I just forgot to change it, have now :D

I don't want 2 thunderers because I don't have two units and I don't want to rely to much on missile fire, and the crossbows have the extra range. It may not make much difference but the few extra casulties may make or break combat, so I figure they're worth it.

I've thought about the thane with BSB but it'll be a huge chunk of my pts if he flees, and I also wanted something to take on heavy troops. The thane should be able to kill three a turn (with good rolls) and with the high S he has no save or a low one.

There's no way you can expect your Thane to get 3 kills per turn; in my experience it take above average rolling to get 2.

It also doesn't look like you have much that's able to deal with dedicated flanking units, which is why I suggested the second Thunderer unit. As it stands, I'd expect to be flanked by third turn, and have to watch your army fold up quickly after.
If you had Hammerers I wouldn't be worried, as they're rarely going to run regardless of a flank charge, but I'm a lot less confident of Warriors or Longbeards on the flank, and only your single Thunderer unit can be expected to be able to shoot fast cav...

I don't expect him to kill 3 that's why it says with good rolls, but even if he kills two it will help my CR and vs Skaven that's what's needed. As with my lord I've gone so he can get more attacks in per turn and hopefully kill something, the Thane is there to take on any high save (Stormvermin, clanrats with full armour options) or if they come up against any rat ogres he should be able to deal with them with three S6 attacks.

I think my force should do ok vs Skaven, I don't need to worry about fav cav (only gutter runners etc) so the crossbowmen and Thunderers should do ok there. The thunderes will either be on a hill or on a flank, I think even Skaven will be a bit nervous about getting into short range of these. With the +1 to hit I think they should easily take out five or six, and hopefully causing a panic test. If not then I may use the lure trap, I wait for them to charge me I flee with the Thunderers. Then I either make it so he can redirect into a warrior unit or my Longbeards with a support unit ready for a flank attack or I set it up for when he fails his charge I can flank him. I will attept to protect my flanks by making sure some sort of terrain or board edge is between them, this should make it hard/impossible to be flanked.

The unit blocks have been uped so they can deal with the main rat units, skaven may have the numbers but if they can kill to many of my warriors it's unlikely they'll win combat. If they don't and I don't break them one of the other units will move either into the flank (if possible) or to take on one of the skaven units. As I have said I don't own any Hammerers so I have to make do with Longbeards (I think they'll be beter vs Skaven than Ironbreakers), they should be able to deal with most that's thrown at them.