"I want to buy a pistol marker. I will buy the marker if it meets 75% of the following requirements (in order of importance):

1.) Relatively inexpensive (not platic-cheap), less than $160.00.
2.) Extremely easy to be modded (adding/taking away C/A mod).
3.) No leak problems with 12g cartridges.
4.) Chances of needing to cut the spring after opening the box is less than 2%.
5.) Quick CO2 reloading (without practice, time < 6 secs.).
6.) Ability to accept the Quick Cap mod.
7.) Is there a need for purchasing extra 10-round clips after modding the marker with the Quick Cap? ("Yes" = bad)
8.) Clip compatibility (if one is so inclined to purchase more), eg.- are clips from a PT Extreme Jr. (or Core ZX 3, etc.) and Zeus G2 compatible?



After a tiny bit of research, I have narrowed my choices to the:
1.) Zeus G2+
2.) Ariakon's ACP
3.) Ariakon's Overlord

I guess my main question would then be: "Does the Overlord accept the Quick Cap?"
The thing that is preventing me from buying the Overlord is:
1.) the fact that it seems the clips are proprietary, meaning one MUST buy ONLY Ariakon's specified clip for that specific marker, and
2.) Zeus G2 is $40-$50 more than the Overlord.
3.) I don't know when Tactical Air Gun's 888.9.Tactical is going to be out.

This begs the question is "Should I wait for TAG's 888.9?"

I hope this post will serve as a helpful topic for newbs (for a decent period of time).

Thank you to all who participate.

<ADDENDUM, Sept. 16th/17th>

I'm sorry about my vague requirements (I knew I should've taken the time to be more specific). I forgot to mention that PPS mod/upgrades aren't "allowed".
I was trying to see what other people thought about just those 3 markers.
(Un/)fortunately, Beefotron brought in the subject of the Core ZX 3, which I purposefully left out due to the relatively large amount of severely negative reviews against it. I'm now wondering if this, too, should be included.

Anyways, for future reference:
9.) the marker must not have a hopper added to it.
Also, re-sell value is not a factor.

I suppose the I the question should be restructured like this:
If you were to play a "good ol' fashioned pistol shoot-out" game,
and the 4 pistols (Zeus; Overlord; ACP; 888.9.Tactical) mentioned
are on a table in front of you,
which one would you choose?
Assume that you will have 60 paintballs for a 5v5 game. Dual-weilding factor may also be used to factor in your choice; 60 round stipulation still applies.

murf425 says "Zeus G2+",
Beefotron says "Core ZX", which is purportedly, a cheaper version of the Zeus.

The more input, the better. Thank you once again.

Okay, this isn't what you want to hear, but here goes:

None of the above.

If you seriously want a pistol, and you seriously want it to meet all those requirements, there is only ONE way to go.

Pick up the cheapest, most busted-arse PGP you can find ($40 or so), and send it to Palmer's to be Strokerized. It's substantially more money than those other options, but it will be a MUCH BETTER gun, and will meet 100% of your specs as opposed to the paltry 75%. Anything else is a waste of time and money. My experiences with all Spyder clone semi pistols (Zeus, PTX, PTE, Piranha something-or-other, etc) have ALL been negative and lacking.

If you are dead set on only spending the amount that one of those options would set you back, go with the Zeus. But I would STRONGLY recommend the PPS Stroker conversion over any of them. Save up the extra money and get something that you will be happy with for a looooong time, and that will work flawlessly everytime.
(and that has a lifetime warranty)


FINAL OPINION:
Your absolute best bet will most likely be to buy a working PGP for around $60-$75, and just play with it while you save up for the conversion. It'll still be a pump, but it'll still be better than any of those options.

murph is right, however if your going in that price range a sydarm is also an option.

I agree with murf425. A used pgp won't break your wallet, and I don't have to tell you how much fun they are, by themselves. Mods and upgrades are both plentiful and affordable. And yes, the ultimate conversion would be to send it off to palmers for a stroker conversion, (although pug conversion can be very tempting as well if you want to stay pump). This would be my route.

lexiones's suggestion of a sydarm is a good direction as well if your sure you want a semi pistol. The sydarm is great pistol and choosing a stroker or a sydarm would be up to you. The only downside is the $ up front.

I've known many people that liked the look of semi pistol format, or wanted to holster a back-up. But, after purchasing either found that 10shot semi was not the format suited for them. Or, never found themselves reaching for that back-up they been lugging into all them games. Ending up selling it off.

If you later find you don't like a pgp, stroker, or sydarm you can unload it on ebay and loose little or no money. I can't say the same thing if you buy an ariacon or zeus.

Really, I have a Core ZX, which is, more or less, the same thing as a Zues. And with all the upgrades and stuff they do to the Zues, you're still not going to be that accurate. They're fun as Hell to play with, and I like my ZX, but in terms of being good markers...

Well, they just AREN'T good markers. :huh:

PGPs own hardcore, and I could get a palmerized PGP i'd be really fricking happy.

But if I could choose any semi-auto sidearm...it would be the AGD Sydarm. Maybe I'm just dedicated to my AGD 'cause of my love for 'Mags, but really Sydarms rock. Shot a guy's one time, thing was beautiful.

See 1st post.

Well I own a Stroker (though not PGP-based, it's a P-68, a little bigger), a PTX, and a Zeus. Strokers are pricey for sure but very nice. PTX's suck, seriously. However I'm very happy w/ the Zeus. 25+ 250fps shots per 12g and no problems whatsoever. Mine has a bottomline adapter w/ a Spyder-type reg on it. I don't know about the others you mentioned but I do like my Zeus.

Alright. By the new rules...Zeus. Personally, I'd save some money and get an original, though, and just add the Quick Cap seperately.

"which one would you choose?"

I have played with both a Zeus and an Overlord. I liked the Zeus better with regards to "playability", my meaning the balance and feel of the gun in my hand. Both guns performed without issue for me:
-they shot relitively good
-I don't remember either one being a particular gas hog
-no mechanical failures experienced by me

I'd take the Zeus for no better reason than it fit my hand the best.

Zeus is your best bet. Buddy of mine has had a pair for years, and even when my brand new Ariakon ACP was breaking down, his still functioned fine.

Also, I wouldn't even mess with the Overlord. Ariakon is claiming everyone who owns one needs to buy specially-shaped CO2 cartridges, because of their design oversight.

Standard Crossman CO2's can jam in the Overlord, and be almost impossible to get out, even after disassembly.

They reccomend you use Brass Eagle CO2s

I'd stay away from anyone reccomending Brass Eagle. :D

The overlord is good and all but changing the 12gs is a pain. I tried crossman, brass eagle, and game face and they all got stuck. Once you figure out how to get them out it isn't to hard to remove them with a small screw driver.

Well, my friend is trying to sell his Delta .68 for half of your budget, and while it may not meet the CA requirement very well, we've used it enough to know it works flawlessly, no leaking, efficeny I can't remember now, but it's nnot terrible. Now we all know it's not the quality of a Stroker/Sydarm, but I think if you decide not to take the money plunge with those, consider it. You may like it and decide you want more for a pistol, then sell and get a higher end model. Just and offer. I myself have a PT Xtreme.. came broken but finally got it fixed... it's fun to toy around with, but I've never really used it nor found the need to.

Zeus G2 all the way, I love mine but cant find a use for it. Want to buy mine? The Zeus G2 is so nice, efficent, stable(a lil heavy but little recoil) and the quick cap system with a nice C/A is a nice setup.

But the point is, you shouldn't have to do that. Ariakon really screwed up with the Overlord, and the ACP. But they're too cheap to recall them, or to even fix the problems they already have in later models.

Case in point: There's a new ACP due out. None of the piercer seal problems have been fixed, they just put a plastic magazine on top instead of a metal one.

I was as paitent as I could be with Ariakon, and the company let me down every time. I've been through two ACP's--they replaced mine because of a defect.

I've had to buy four piercer seals from them, pay for all four plus shipping, and buy a new valve from them for another 30.00.

Their markers are garbage.

There are no good sidearm semi markers currently out. The Palmer's gun isn't a sidearm, it's much too expensive, heavy, and well-built to be considered one. Your sidearm should never greatly overvalue or greatly outweigh your primary!

what if you carry a nasty hurc as your main gun and a stroker for a side arm?



big advocate for palmers, i would save and get a palmer

although like murf said with in criteria, id go zuse

Ok, you got me there.

I was very close to ordering a Palmer Squall for a while.

But I would feel like an idiot carrying a 700.00 marker as a backup to my 300.00 Phantom. ;)

Best bet is to make a semi pgp. Not hard at all. Mcarterbrown is doing a step by step project and any one who wants to tag along is welcome. They have a whole section for it too.

The best pistol I have used hands down it the Fastech AFT. They easily make good velocity, have decent accuracy, I get close to 40 shots per 12g, it comes with a built-in backbottle ASA in addition to the 12g, the clips make reloading fast (but reloading the clips themselves takes a bit of time), you can get a factory made piece that lets you convert to direct feed, and the price tends to be in the $200-250 range.

I like it better than the Sydarm, Squall, Semi-PGPs, PTs...

The only catch is they don't make them anymore. But, if you can find one, jump on it!

PMI USP seems to fit most of your criteria except #2. Have you considered it?

If your looking for quality and or reliablity - You'll find neither with any of your choices. You couldn't pay me to own any of those pistols you have in your choice range.
Reliability is what you really need to look for - and you really can't have that without quality. And both of those cost a few bucks and can't be found in any spider based pistols.
I have tried to search for the perfect semi-pistol for so long. (PT's, Eagle 68, Sidekick, numberous others) I ended up selling most of them and Stuck with my AGD sydarms (which I have 4 now) Everyone I've spoken to has nothing but great things to say about the Palmers pistols - haven't tried one myself (don't know why...) I just received the Tactical pistol formerly the tac eagle, formerly the Tag8 now officially the Tiberius 8 (for the record) It was less than my sydarm and is clip fed (both paint and 12-gram simultaniously). Everything is pretty awesome - there's a thread here that has a great review on it for all to see. I totally agree with the review. But not in your price range. You may as well pay someone $150 bucks to kick you in the nuts :wacko: if you end up buying any of your 3 choices.

Think about this - even if not used as a main marker, your pistol is your back-up and should work for you when it's whipped out of it's holster.

I know my Sydarms and Tiberius 8 will be ready to cover my a$$ when I take aim.

I don't know if I agree Demonio,
I played all last year with a zeus G2, 15,000 rounds and over 900 12grams-Two day games, one day games, fifteen minute games and it still works just fine for spring.
I've got sad news for you demonio, the puncture pin(the crucial element in 'during-game' durability) in your expensive TAG8 magazine is EXACTLY the same as the one in my zeus which is the same one as is in the Phantom and the O-rings in the TAG8 are not made of 'space' rubber, they're the same too. I've never had the aluminum or brass wall blow out of any gun-it's all o-rings, seals and pins and those are the same in every gun out there. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say you know how to take care of a Sydarm better without damaging it? I've played with sydarms and now a tag8, as well as most of the others on your list and I know a good pistol when I see one.
The zeus has it's strengths and weaknesses, It's a no'count JABB and not very fancy, but I can put 150 paintballs downrange as fast as I can pour them in the hole in the top of the gun and change co2s, without any fear of freezing up- I could not say that about the Sydarms I have played with.

That being said- The Armotech Zeus is no more and the Warsensor + series were made in several different factories and I've helped people to repair things that should never have been wrong in the first place.
Armotech is lame but the zeus design is adequate.

They are supposed to return in the spring as the Miltec G1 and G2, we'll see if the quality comes back up, now that they're being made in the original factory again.

I like the TAG8's, sydarms, squalls and strokers and wouldn't argue anyone out of getting one, but I had fun playing with my 3357's too.

Rob

I SKIMMED all the posts and i dont think i saw anyone suggest this, but something VERY interesting hit me in the pistol format is the T68 pistol from RAP4. As of the moment, it's still very new, the four reviews average out to 9.8 (three 10's and one 9) Which is very good from my point of view, but four reviews lack quite a lot. The pricing ranges from what i've seen $99 to $150 (most places are out of stock, and it seems like the price rite now is based at $120)

Since it has a dropout changer, this would easily allow for a dummy 12 gram.

The only problem i am NOT SURE of is the holes on the bottom of the grip, if they even exist at all (which i think should, i dont know of many guns that have no bottomline holes) Im sure someone can ask if there are holes on the bottom.

Edit: What is a quick cap mod? But it seems like the T68 would meet ur requirements.