I get a lot of "why don't you got to pandimonium?" whenever I go to EMR and I see a lot of discussion on changing the game up. At the same time I know you guys want to boost your numbers at the game without changing the game play or what PP is all about. So the reason why I havn't gone yet is simply because you don't allow semi pistol to be played. Semi pistol defined as a gun that uses a spring fed 10-15 shot tube (I run mine on CA) and that's it.

I really don't see why not for a couple of reasons. First a lot, if not a majority, of the pumps I see at MCB and SCP can shoot faster than my pistol. They hold way more balls than my pistol. They can change barrles for a better paint/barrle match unlike my pistol. At the same time they use CA, just like my pistol. They are also closed bolt like my pistol but I think I may be the only one to still think that counts (I'm crazy, rah rah rah).

So every advantage I have is matched except for in SC play which I freely admit time and time again is far harder than what I do. In open pump play though I am certainly outmatched gear wise. If the idea behind pandimonium is truly to put everyone on a limited play yet equal playing field because we all know it's fun I don't see the issue other than the "pump" in the title.

So every PP I look on and think of what fun it would be to play with my gun on an equal playing field and don't get the chance. I don't have fun playing with any gun but my main gun because I'm just wierd like that after playing with it for more than 7 or so years.

Some issues I've heard with the idea are,

1. Someone could put a hopper on it and say it is a pistol: make it against the rules
2. Someone could have multiple pistols and play like regular semi: First there's multiple reasons why that just wouldn't work but if it bothers you, make it against the rules
3. It's a pump only game!: why?
4. Buy a pump (rent a pump): I'm too cheap to buy one and that's not the point
5. You could overshoot: you can with far more ease with one of the newer pumps. I've seen more than once the boast "The AT pump that made pnuematic assist illegal at pandimonium" or "my pump shoots as fast, or faster, than most mechs."
6. We'd have to change the name!: the SCPL, or whatever that tournies name is, would be a prime example of the opposite. If you'd like I could go find the 8 pg bashing of the few people who had a problem with it's name on this board.

on positives I see
1. I'd be there and I'm awesome enough for a rule change :P
2. We'd be attracting more kids who are afraid to go all out pump due to preconcieved notions of pump play.
3. We'd be attacting a larger customer base, increasing numbers, and helping blue decide the PP is awesome
4. For those of you who care (and I don't) a lessening of pumpist "elitisim" or whatever
5. The attraction of more sponsers for the event further ensuring it's rise in importance to blue

on the negatives I see
1. It's no longer just a pump only game but a limited play game.
2. The remote possibility of a massive outpouring of semi-pistol players albiet there are far more pump players than pistol players at this point in time to the best of my knowledge

Other than that I don't see any changes in the gameplay whatsoever but I may just be ignorant/nieve. If so feel free to educate me.

You make a convincing enough statement to bring this under consideration.

While I am naturally opposed to it for the "semi" aspect of it, it still should be considered by the commitee.

i run a monthly pump AND pistol game.
why do i allow pistols?

because i love pistol play and it's actually a slight disadvantage playing w/ a pistol against CA DF pumps...

and all those guys that bought TAC8's get a chance to use them in a fun environment.

give this a thought guys.

"While I am naturally opposed to it for the "semi" aspect of it"

If I do get a "no" I'd be pretty bumed if that was the only reason.

Freedom: thanks for the support. I forgot to mention, although certainly thought about, the success of other limited play games incorperating both semi-pistol and pump. While I have personally never had the chance to attend one due to none being in my area (PP is the only limited play game I know of) I have heard great things about them working out great. So the precedent of this sort of thing actually working out great is already established.

"all those guys that bought TAC8's get a chance to use them in a fun environment."

This is a great reinfocement of my secound positive effect in the original post. I keep reading on this site, and hearing from it's members, that SCP is all about promoting pump play. I'd go so far as to say that SCP, a brief period after it's inception, has been lazer focused on getting as many pump players as possible in paintball. I have to honestly say at this point in my arguement that I never liked this lazer focus for numerous reasons we can discuss elsewhere.

Regardless though if that is one of the groups primary intents then it should be obvious that semi-pistols should be welcomed to PP. Many semi players own semi pistols either due to practicality or cost and would be much more likely to enter the realm of pump play if they could be introduced to it at PP. Sure you guys give out rental pumps and stuff but,
1. A lot of people don't know this
2. A lot of people don't feel comfterable borrowing a paintgun
3. A lot of people don't feel comfterable with having to rely on someone lending them a gun to play at an event they have paid for/driven to. This is reinforced by them thinking perhaps not a lot of people lend pumps. Obviously I fall into none of these groups.

You'd be giving non pump players a chance to try out a pump enviroment without having to buy gear or simply jump right into the pool. I'm sure freedom could tell you about many kids who came with their tac 8's and afterwards decided to go buy a pump. I've heard of it happening at other limited play events but I'll allow others to share their stories about that.

Not allowing semi-pistol at PP would stager the potential growth of pump play. If the reason for this is simply "ew it's semi" than I wonder what is SCP about?




Just curious who is the comitee?

The commitee is made of OT mods and at least 7-10 others. Some of the people are not main members of this forum.

And 10 shot dont think im picking on you. Keep in mind that I am trying to keep true to mavericks and cargos intention for the site. Since they no longer frequent here its hard to know what they would want, I have to assume.


As for pistols, the only and I mean the only reason I am not in favor of them is the "semi" aspect. Keep in mind that when mav and cargo were around they were opposed to PA on pumps. And the only "pistols" allowed were splattys or nelspots pgps and such. the only time that semis were even considered were as a sidearm for a general but still never happened.

The crash has lost everything I could quote but I do remember those items being brought up.

And yeah 10 shot it does sound like im hiding the names of the PP comittee but if they want to come forward they can. There is no reason to name names anyway.

OK, while I do not post here as often as I could, and I am neither a mod nor on the "PP Board of Execs", I felt this warranted me making my voice heard.

The whole point of the game is to get back to the roots of the game. Yes this does by the very nature of the idea, limit the tech level of the guns being used. Yes I use a Phantom VSC. Yes I run it off 12 grams. Yes I have wished for a tad more firepower on a couple of occassions, but it is my choice to play with the setup I do and I fully accept the limitations I have put upon myself. I look at them as a challenge to overcome, not an obstacle to prvent me from playing.

Also, I can speak for the whole of Last Rites in saying that we would not be so adamant about driving 750 miles one way for a game that semis are allowed in. We can drive 45 minutes for that. I am sure that there are others who feel the same. As I see it, with the current escalation of AT Snipers with Eggos and HPA, it would just be a matter of time before it became a semi pistol game, and PP would mean Pistol Pandemonium.

As for changing the rules, it seems that there are enough changes in the works regarding Motorized loaders, PA, AT and whatnot. I realize that it will never be a stock class game, but that is asking a bit much. However, I feel keeping it pump only is well within the realm of possibility and a much simpler idea.

AS for what "SCP" is about? Real simple: Stock Class Paintball. Pretty much says it all.

Hopefully this makes as much sense to you, true believers, as it does to me.

Chem: No worries on the comittee I thought maybe there was a public list somewhere or something. Until this thread I didn't even know there was an actual comittee. Explains a thing or two :P

" Keep in mind that when mav and cargo were around they were opposed to PA on pumps. And the only "pistols" allowed were splattys or nelspots pgps and such."

And if things where still the way they where when mav. and cargo where running the show I wouldn't be asking this question so seriously, more so as a joke. The fact is that the game is entirely diffrent than what it used to be. I've seen this in post game threads, talking to people I trust who have been around since the 1st one, and just in the general changing demeanor of the pump community. I wouldn't be asking this at all if we where still how we where.

But we arn't and we both know it. How many people that go to PP pride themselves on being at a disadvantage v. how many on having the fastest leetest (or however) shooter? Rewind back to the first PP. Would I have been able to say that the gear of the majority of people at the game completely outclasses mine? no.

So you have the biggest limited play game that I can get to without driving ridiculous distance and the general idea is "lets keep it all pump!" even when it's not even close to what that used to mean.

At the same time I got people in my face, telling others shucky-darn, and being pricks on the field from the general whatever community for being such a prick elitist. I've been nothing but friendly and never talked shucky-darn but enoughs enough. How many at PP actually play pump 50% of the time? Don't ever try to tell me SCP is trying to act like what SCP used to be it's a wicked sore spot.

I see someone like swamp thing or another "pump means pump" player say "I want an all pump game" I'll show my respect. At times I'll go so far as to ask to borrow a gun. I'm not against the idea of an all pump game if the idea behind pump is actually in practice.

you like pistol play? and want to go to PPV? get a pump pistol. hell i'll bring my pgp and you can use that.

it is called "pump pandemonium"

disadvantage this, and disadvantage that...it's a semi-auto gun. as swampy said, i can do semi games locally.

we'll just end up opening the flood gates for more non-pump stuff, which moves away from what Pump Pandemonium is.

hell i can shoot faster with my sniper than i ever could with my vm-68, but there's no need to ask if i can play with my vm-68. plus what defines a "pistol" put a small tank and hopper on an automag and that's pistol like.

What is this business about SCP not being what it used to be?


I'll get back to that in a minute.

First, let me address this issue of "pistols" allowed in a PP game.

Let's pretend for a moment that we do let 10-shot use his normal equipment in the game. That is, a 10-round springfed semi pistol running constant air that must be reloaded from tubes and not magazines.

Suppose someone else wnats to use their springfeed semi that just is larger than what we'd call a "pistol." Same thing, longer barrel. What's the big deal, right?

How large can the springfeed be? Can we just use a small hopper? How about a stickfeed? Can the "pistol" have an electronic trigger?

It gets out of control very quickly and now we're just playing a regular game. In fact, I can very well see this type of ammendment attracting the "wrong" kind of people. Someone thinks they can bring their electro and just slap a stickfeed on it and start beating up on the wussy pumpers. We're right back to the same problem.

Think about it - if we allow springfeeds then why not stick feeds? If we allow stickfeeds, how do we ensure that they get reloaded with tubes only? How do we tell someone that they can't put a cut up funnel on the top of their pod and reload with that, airsoft-style? Then how do we tell someone that they're not allowed to "reload while shooting?"

Barring that, I can think of at least a dozen other ways to abuse this ammendment.

I vote not just no but HELL NO to allowing semis of any type into a PP game.
It's nothing against you personally, 10-shot, but I don't see why we should make a special concession just for you that can and will be abused by other people.



Now what's this about SCP not being what it used to be?

I'll admit, I've been here for only 2 years and change but I would certainly say that in that time, the general trend has been towards improvement.

We've got more events, more members and more sponsors and supporters than we did two years ago. We've got additional projects in the works and we've got people who really care about SCP as an organization, not simply as a way to find games to play. We even have some material assets like the bunkhouse.

What are you talking about?

It's about pump, obviously. Stock Class specifically, but in the broad aspect it's about pump play and staying true to the days of old (both in technology and spirit). Semi pistols do not fall under Stock Class rules. Why? IT'S A SEMI! So why would SCP suddenly be accused of trechory for something that it shouldn't be? That "SCP just ain't like it was back in the day" garbage people spew. That's like saying "SCP doesn't allow Excaliburs or Vikings so SCP has lost its roots and not what it used to be." Yes that's equal, because Excals have just as much to do with SCP as do Semi Pistols.... absolutely nothing!

Now that's my opinion as far as semi pistols related to SCP itself is concerned. As far as the event Pump Pandemonium is concerned however. I could see the exception. I won't vote yay or nay yet really I'm just on the fence. Because yes it is a semi however if limited to say 12grams and 10rnd tubes then I don't personally see it as a "threat." It isn't overwhelming firepower, in fact Autotriggering pumps can fire much faster and with a much larger volume of paint (150+ rounds!). And even though semi, the feed is limited to 10 rounds which would cap any possible abuse.

What do I mean by Abuse? Some SCPers know exactly, from our SCP Roadtrip to Georgia for... I forget but some "Limited Paint" game. Semis were allowed, but they needed to be capped hoppers. Couldn't be more than like 40 rounds or so. How did they get around this? They just held their pod above their open hopper and wailed on the trigger. Thus abusing the system. 10rnds max would eliminate this.

But that is also the problem. Abusing the system. And making more and more additions and changes to the rules. How long until we've made so many changes that we really did cross the line of "we aren't what we used to be." BUT at the same if there is a large enough group of semi-pistol owners out there just wanting to play in a competitive yet more fair environment, maybe we should in the hopes that after playing with the pump players that they will themselves pick up a pump and enjoy pump play. Since that is the overall end goal we really had from the start, spreading pump play and getting more into our niche.

10 shot do you secretly work for that hack field Del-Hobbies?

There pump tourny tanked thanks to that same thought process.. They wanted to run a pump only tourny then half way through they switched it to a mixed class pump/semi pistol... Then they said to bring the pumps down to semi pistol level we couldnt run battery operated hoppers....


Yeah.. I may run an auto trigger pump and boast that it was that gun that got the PA guns banned from pp2 but booo hooo.... Its PUMP pandimonium.. not Pistol Pandimonium...

IF emr allows pistols it just opened the mass confusion flood gates.. I could then run an at-10 as its limited paint and small.. or wait.. I can run an a5 with a 40 round hopper!!!

Pfft.. bad idea

10-shotkid, if you want to borrow a pump next year for PPV I have one i will set up for you if you want.

Were you at Castle Conquest in a tux top shooting a Palmers Pistol? If that was you i have a couple of good pics of you.

I can see both sides. Allowing pistols w/ no more than 10-15 rounds could bring in sponsors like Tiberius and Palmers Pursuit Shop (this would be cool) but it would also defeat even the name of the game being "Pump Pandemonium".

"Were you at Castle Conquest in a tux top shooting a Palmers Pistol? If that was you i have a couple of good pics of you." ( crazy origin)

Yea that was me

"There pump tourny tanked thanks to that same thought process.. They wanted to run a pump only tourny then half way through they switched it to a mixed class pump/semi pistol... Then they said to bring the pumps down to semi pistol level we couldnt run battery operated hoppers...." (big old school)

That's ridiculous

"So why would SCP suddenly be accused of trechory for something that it shouldn't be? That "SCP just ain't like it was back in the day" garbage people spew." (meph)

You know that isn't the reason I'm saying that SCP isn't what it used to be and you certainly know it isn't 'suddenly'. That's dicked up meph.

Trojan man:
"How large can the springfeed be?"

I know they can't make em larger than 20 but I guess that would be up to the comitee making the rules

"Can we just use a small hopper?"

go reread my original post and comprehend. Make a rule against hoppers period. Or just say "semi pistol defined as a paintgun with a spring fed 10-15 shot tube" end. If a springfeed can somehow be manipulated into being a true semi I would love someone to prove it to me next time I'm at EMR.

"How about a stickfeed?"

well you've already pointed out potential issues with that so I'd say no

"Can the "pistol" have an electronic trigger?"

for all those times you want an empty gun in less than a secound...




and Im spent :P

Id like more of an explanation on how the SCP isnt what it used to be, See where we went wrong.

pump pandemonium. B)

As I see it, Pump Pandemonium is a way to get more people exposed to pump play, some for the first time.

There's a reason that it's not Stock Class Pandemonium; we actually want a lot of people to show up and not feel really uncomfortable. That being said, there still must be some restrictions in order to make the game what it was meant to be- a chance to get back to "The good old days." Some people have even talked about bringing MORE restrictions to the game.

Also, I know what it is like to like playing with one main gun. I love my pump mag, which I put a 3.5 co2 tank on and a mini hopper. It's not stock class, but I love it. However, I see Pump Pandemonium as a chance to get out of my comfort zone, break out the phantom for a while and experience the ups and downs of stock class play against other pumpers. It's really quite a lot of fun. Is it always fun? No. Do I sometimes wish I were using my pump mag? Yes. However, if on Sunday there is an all stock class game, I'm going to be there and I understand I cannot use my p-mag.

All in all, what I am saying is that playing paintball is what you make of it and I think it's more about the people you play with than the equipment you are playing with. We want to see you there, 10-shot, and we would love to see you try out pump play just once a year.


:D

No, what's dicked up is people who always cry and whine about places "not being like they used to be" and never explaining themselves.

lol explained here then

http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/StockCla...showtopic=25401

and I could have sworn we've talked about this before. My bad if my recollection is completely off.

I think what your referring to is the debate between open class and stock class, and how more people run open class rigs of a regular basis than stock class rigs. Something to that affect anyways.

I can't much more than has already been stated, but it's called PUMP Pandemonium, and I'm sorry but that isn't the same as Limited Play Pandemonium. I got because its all pumps, period.

You know, this is getting out of hand for something that has a very simple solution.



Just turn your LPR all the way down and use it bolt-action. Problem solved.

But what about the Tiberius 8 guys?


All both of them?

Yep.

And/or get a pump kit for your gun from PPS.

I also have a PPS springfed Stroker and don't see it as offering any advantage over an open class pump. However, I still don't think it belongs in a "pump only" game.

Unfortunately, exceptions open the door for abuse.

I see where 10shot's coming from and, aside from his uber-provocative comments about the "old SCP" or whatever, he is not out to destroy Pump Pandemonium with his suggestion about the semi-pistols.

I, for one, very much enjoy supplementing my bolt-action with a Tib. I find that it very nearly brings me into competitiveness with the average recballer in an open class game. That said, I see no reason to agitate the pump purists (y'all know who you are) with such a departure from the very simple rules.

I am opposed to pneumatic assist at PP, but I do not really mind the paint dumpers with their AT'd Sterlings, Snipers, etc.. Autotriggering is a crutch anyway and rarely produces. All the good players know that. <_<

How do I draw the line? I don't know, but I know what is a pump gun and what isn't.

Let's keep our purists happy and keep to the status quo. Maybe we can coax 10shot with a nice PPS pumper with the same balance as his pistol, maybe we can't. In the end, I think it is your loss 10shot and I would hope you will see the error in your inflexibility with respect to past PP's.

Everyone else... give 10 shot a break. He is just throwing out an idea and we are all kicking it (and not him) around. All the other drama is for another thread.

Cheers,
D.

Honestly i wouldnt see a problem using tiberius arms guns. i mean its a 8 shot if i do remember.. and a clip is 30 bucks! dont think many people are going to have a bunch of those on hand.

Which i think it'd be fun and bring some big action to the game, id actually buy one for it just for the fun aspect of creating some intense firefights.

Ive seen 10 shots pistol in action though, and i am going to agree but not 100% with everyone. Sure it may seem like a slight disadvantage bc its a pistol.. but it is the same ammo count as with the stock classers.. just his guns fast and i know due to seeing him play. He's very good with it, but i feel that with him using it there is no real disadvantage and with reloading he could dump some serious paint bc he reloads that beast fast. It'd probably make things worse then the AT people who just sprayed all over at PP IV.

I still like the idea on tac's, but just to make some little intense area's in the game.. or maybe allow it as specifically a sidearm only. Not using it as a primary, if you have a certain amount of tubes for lets say a phantom and run out then u can resort to a tac. Sure its not pump but remember you have 8 shots and if anybodies trigger happy like me that 8 shots is gone in 3 seconds and im done till i goto get more paint :P

man now i really wanna buy 2 tacs and just go dual pistols on somebody. >.< maybe march meltdown.. just maybe

you just make so has to use 12 gram and they have to rock cock style pump gun that can have no more then 10rds feed . so have to use 10rds tubes and has to rock and cock. that way their no way spring feed will work. no will p68sc be leagal since has longer feed neck above the gun that need to be rock and cock.

I don't think a semi-pistol has a place on the field at PP. Then again, I don't much think AT'ed / electric Hoppered guns, or PE guns have a place there either.

The first PP game was the most fun I've had playing ball in years - but I have to admit PP hasn't been what it was that first year since. I don't think that is just nostalgia either, what you see coming on the field has changed over the course of the event. It seems to me PP has evolved to follow that old "brinkmanship" line that IMO ruined paintball.

I was quite ill this last PP, perhaps that effects my perspective I don't know, but this last PP wasn't that great to me. It seems that the game has lost something. I tend toward the "purist" part of the spectrum and in that I've attributed the change to all the open class stuff on the field.

You can say what you want, but there is a significant difference between Drum using his bolt action KP, me using my bolt action side-tube pistol and a person using an AT'ed/electro-hoppered or PE gun. There is an advantage to the gent bringing the bells and whistles - that is why the person brings such equipment to an event that has a lot of old hunks of brass at it. Next thing you know the dudes that brought the brass last year have upgraded to a Phantom or some other gun to feel as though they can compete. At least that is the way I see it.

In years past I've waited eagerly for the PP games to come. After PPI I was so incredibly excited! With PPV, I'm not too enthused about it right now in all honesty because I think whatever spirit or feeling that was in PPI is gone and the only thing that I can attribute it to is the different equipment seen on field and the different people using it. I see the natural order of brinkmanship that is so close to mankind and a part of us all has crept in and ruined things - yet again.

I don't know where PP is going from here, heck I don't know where I'm going to go from here for that matter.

Has SCP changed? Yep, it has. We have more members, different members we have more "clicks", political affiliations / hierarchy and just different people around. The guys that essentially created SCP as it was - simply aren't here anymore. I don't know if that was so much because of the vicissitudes of life, or that they just became uncomfortable with the site because of the changes.

SCP in times past used to address issues, used to be an open forum with which to discuss any subject from world events, politics and paintball to just about anything. In recent times people don't discuss things, they don't debate anything really. If a serious subject is brought up it may be lampooned, irreverently addressed, or simply supplanted by something else - the catch all supplanting issue is alcohol / drinking. Issues are very rarely discussed anymore. Arguments / debates just don't seem to occur as they used to. People used to very intelligently "state their case" so to speak in regard to issues and folks just don't seem to do that here anymore do to things being lampooned, treated irreverently or threads being jacked / supplanted with harmless drinking jargon.

There may have been heated discussions back in the day, people may have at times had their feathers ruffled etc. but it used to be so much more interesting when people actually spoke their minds openly.

No, things don't feel the same as they used to here. Things definitely have changed over time and over people coming and going. The flavor has changed, the spirit is different now. Things here tend to be more flashy yet PC and more tolerant. I think a lot of the negative culture changes that are so rampant in our society have spilled into the site with the fresh blood. SCP has become more "mainstream" for lack of better words - and in that I feel that the place has lost a lot of its old soul because of it. I view it as a "bad" thing, then again I'm one of the old ba$tards now - naturally I resent it. Most of all I resent that many aspects of the "open forum" nature are pretty much gone now. I think folks used to be able to say just about anything here on this site, now a days though, if you say anything that might be somewhat controversial someone will jack the thread with drinking / alcohol commentary and the thread dies. Its sad really. Sad that folks don't have anything better to contribute, sad that folks maybe are afraid to comment, and sad that maybe some people are trying to quash others from expressing themselves.

It's kinda like the difference between WW2, Korea, and Nam vets - they are all lumped into the old guy category - but there are very distinct and noticeable differences between the people individually, between their generations. Different base values are held high, different motivations and life views, different prejudices too. Sort of makes me think that much of the change that has occurred here at SCP are generational. I guess that makes the most sense given the way things have gone.

So, in the spirit of the old site 10-shot, from one of the older Ba$tards left to say it, I don't agree that semi-pistols have a place at PP events because it is a "pump" event. However I believe you damned well have the right to suggest it, to speak passionately about it and disagree with me with every fiber of your being regarding it! While I don't agree with it, I'd fight for your right to say it and to disagree with me. B) Thank you for making a strong opinion known, and for defending it passionately!

In closing, I take have no umbrage with my fellow members of SCP really. I just detest change when I see it as all aging people eventually come to detest change. While I may detest change with everything I have - I must also realize that it is inevitable and in that I must accept it to a certain degree - but I don't have to like it. ;)

Six:

"Then again, I don't much think AT'ed / electric Hoppered guns, or PE guns have a place there either.

and I agree. As I said earlier "if PP was still what PP was I wouldn't be serious about this point, it would be more of a joke." But it's not what it used to be. You've succiently pointed out the reasons in your own post why it's diffrent.

I wish I had made it to the first PP. I didn't due to money issues at the time. I didn't make the secound one for whatever reason. From there I heard it took this sharp decline into who's pump shoots fastest. From there I've seen members flat out bragging about their BPS at PP on the forums and elsewhere.

The game is totally diffrent than what it used to be because of this and only because of this I personally find it fair for me to aggressivly ask to use my pistol at the events. If I'm outmached by more than 50% of the people on the field due to their gear then I should be aloud to play.

The only negative response to me saying this has been "BUT IT'S PUMP!" which is exactly the type of "elitism" this group is against and has blasted me here and in person (moreso through simply snubbing me IPR style) for before. And the negative reponse to this other than "BUT IT'S PUMP" is, as any objective person would observe, quite personal or flippant.

Not once have I seen one of the two responses I had hoped for. One being "sure 10-shot" and "whoa... we gotta reaexamin this because he's right." Expand pump play at all costs, let anything in, what has this led to? A pandimonium that effictivly already is the more "open" class I'm requesting. A pandimonium that is entirely opposite from what pump play is all about.

Pump play isn't about being friendly, playing with honor, and all those phiolosophical ideals, paintball is. Or at least that is what many members of this board have so adamantly declared in the past. The only idea that is unique to pump paintball is limiting oneself further than other types of play.

Is this simply manually cocking the gun with a pump and that's it? Even if we can get this process to shoot as fast as highend mechs of the late 90's? Is shooting a pump more than 10bps what the idea of pump play, even just PP, is all about?

The enraged response that has gone so far as to get pretty personal tells me a lot of people here already know the answer to that question.

So we need to branch out PP and compromise the pump aspect of it to get more pumpers to play?

Granted, I missed the last one, but I don't get these sad nostalgic comments about the old PP or the decline, etc.

I think any time you gather the like minded tribes there is gonna be fun. If anything, the limitation to pump guns does more to "weed out" certain types of players that some of us might prefer not to play with generally.

Once we have established that traditional threshold and the knucklehead players (I am not referring to you, 10shot, though you know you are a knucklehead B) ) that we don't want on the campus are suitably discouraged, then I do not care what people play with.

If I had my way and money were no object, I would rent all of EMR for one weekend a year, invite all the fun folks from SCP and MCB and a few others and then we would have an open class game that would be damn near as fun as the PP's.

It is not the guns that need limiting in my eyes, it is the players. Sticking to the pumps only rule simply ensures that the right type of players gather. Sure, this may be an elitist view, but so what?
As one goes on in life, one realizes that the vast majority of humans are bozos who are unworthy of the beer they consume. Sharing a valuable experience with new initiates becomes vastly less important than hoarding the good times and the good people for ourselves.

D.

Agreed Drum - To me it's about who shows up at PP that makes it. Do I love the all pump setting? You bet your arse - but it's more those people who play pump that make it, not how or what they play with.

i was just trying to help bring light to this thing. i agree pump only is way to go but their other pistol out their that are not semi but shoot as bolt action too. if was me my phantom all i need. open class is not fun for me too.

I've known 10-shot for a while. I know him to be a decent and more importantly, an honest player. And a lot of fun at scenario games.
For those reasons, I would rather see him in the game using whatever he'd like instead of sitting it out.
But I recognise that I am prejudiced in his case. (strangely enough, I kinda like the little meshughena :D )

In general, I feel PP is unique simply because it IS all pumps. Nobody else in the world pulls off what we do together with EMR each year.
I like it that way, and if anything, I'm one of those who would prefer even tighter restrictions.
To that end, I would not allow any semi's simply because they are not pumps and there are plenty of other games around where it could be used (and used well, I've seen)

Therefore I offer a compromise, that the Sunday games allow it, but the Saturday "pandemonium" game should stick to it's ideals of being a true Pump Only game.

10 shot, I would say no to anyone I didn't know as well or better. However, my personal favoritism doesn't count for much in the grand scheme.
Should the consensus go against it, you're certainly welcome to borrow your choice of what I have.

hmmmm i like that sunday idea jim. as long as theres still restrictions.. if it holds under a certain amount of paintballs and isnt electronic and doesnt have a hopper or feedneck then its fair game :P bc id buy a tac just to run around sunday with it. lmao

What exactly defines a "pistol"? Can I run my Mini with a 5" barrel? It's pistol like. And its semi auto. Its PUMP Pandemoneum, thats why the Pump is in the title. No grey areas to play around with. Yeah pumps are different than what they used to be. But they are still pumps not semis. I see adding pistols as opening a big ole bag of worms and people asking questions like I just did about this gun and that. Just my .02

vonort: "Semi pistol defined as a gun that uses a spring fed 10-15 shot tube (I run mine on CA) and that's it."

and later in the original post I wrote,
"1. Someone could put a hopper on it and say it is a pistol: make it against the rules
2. Someone could have multiple pistols and play like regular semi: First there's multiple reasons why that just wouldn't work but if it bothers you, make it against the rules"

So if I put a 10 - 15 round springfed tube on my Mini you would be ok with it in "pistol" play?

its not a pistol though, its electro pneumatic marker :P

I mean come on, we all know what a pistol/sidearm marker is. Sure almost all of them are semi, but only hold 8-15 paintballs and most run off a 12 gram. Not really any different then rocking a phantom or SC sniper. Except the disadvantages of less accuracy and shorter range.

Shorter range?

yes. most pistols dont have a barrel thats extends from the body like other markers so they generally have a small barrel inside. Most pistols only seem to have a accurate shot to about 25-30 yds. If u can long ball 50+ yds then its a matter of luck to hit something. Im talking about most standard pistols, such as zeus, overlords,pt extreme's and so on.

Compare that to a sniper or phantom and the pistol is definatly at a range and accuracy disadvantage.

But 280 FPS is 280 FPS. Unless there is a flatline effect happening the range should be the same.