At my homefield Paintball of Charleston, they are selling an AGD Sydarm. I had a chance to hold it and it was comfortable and had a good weight to it. It screams speedball! :bang: They are selling it for about $450 but i can probably get it lower. I am thinking about picking it up. It would be my only semi-and a great second gun that i would own (my phantom is my number one :rolleyes: ). does anyone own a sydarm or have used one before?

For $450 you're better off buying a Stroker (or a well-used Squall) at the same price.

If it's just the Sydarm with no extras and it's not BNIB I wouldn't even consider paying over $325. That was around the re-intro price of about a year ago and those came new (part old stock, though) from the factory. If it's an original with low serial number it might have some collector value and if it's a "prototype" with the offset feed tube then it deffinitely does.

* The "protos" have a magazine that's longer than the barrel and offset with some exposed air routing. If it's one of these, buy it no matter what price they're asking.
* The original runs use a standard AM/MM rail and will have relatively low serial numbers - think below 500 or so. These were sold exclusively to police and military units but plenty found their way into paintballers' hands. These have a grey powdercoat body and smooth, unbroken top tube. Value of maybe $300-400 depending on condition and serial number.
* The re-issue from about a year ago used up AGD's old stock of valves and bodies. Some of the old bodies that were refurbished had poor original powdercoating so every one came shiny electropolished stainless. They also came stock with the TAC rail (as seen on Tac-Ones and some RT-Pros). This rail is wider and has silver side panels, a sloped rear and dovetailed fore end. Value of maybe $250-350 depending on condition and whether or not anyone has screwed it up (i.e. modified it from its original form).

Chances are it's one of the re-issues. If so, they're not as rare or uncommon as some people make them out to be. You can get them if you're patient and you can find one for well under the asking price that they have listed. Their price is likely high because they're a store, will probably service the purchase afterwards (warranty, return policy, etc.), can guarantee instant delivery and can afford to price it a little high just to see if anyone bites.

It's up to you what you're willing to pay for it, of course, but be forewarned that it is a Sydarm. Running a 'Mag on CO2 (even though the Sydarm has a slighty-tweaked valve) can cause shootdown, freezing and other issues. Sydarms have a few other problems associated with the design as it uses extra seals and a fine-thread CO2 nut (lots of turns). Overall it's a fine piece -heck, it is AGD we're talking about here- but it's not completely bulletproof.

If you can accept that it's an occasional-use marker that just needs a little bit of TLC to keep it in tip-top shape, aren't afraid to pay the relatively high price, enjoy the ergonomics (they're a little heavy with all that stainless) and are willing to invest the time and paint cost to learn to shoot it well then by all means, get it.

I've got one and I like it so far. Haven't used it in a game yet but it's a nice piece nevertheless. I'll be the first to say that they're certainly not for everyone, though!

EDIT: FWIW, this is TrojanMan. That darn Noodles was haxxoring my compy again! :P

thanks for the info. Yeah this has no powdercoat just the stainless steel look. I think one reason why they have it so high is because they have warrantys for all in-store bought markers. I'm definatly going to take all this into consideration. I have plenty of time to think about this (plus i have to save up money first). Again thanks.

I had one and it was a total PITA. It's all the problems mags have, but in a pistol.

What problems do mags have?

I am positive all guns have issues if not taken care of or trouble shot correctly. My pump mag has been awesome as well as my Emag.

your emag has an auto friendly-targeting system ;)

Well, there is the issue of CO2 in a mag. Blowbacks and even autocockers (with the right reg, of course) are a little friendlier to CO2 in cold temperatures because they have larger internal passages. The 'Mag has some pretty tiny passages and it tends to keep the CO2 in the state it was in when it enters the valve. Without having much room for expansion, once liquid gets in the valve, it stays liquid for a long time.

Granted, it's only really an issue below around 65-70*F and even then, as long as it's not mid-winter you're probably OK unless you really lean on the trigger.

Without the remote adapter, the Sydarm is relegated to CO2 use only and through 12 grams at that. Fortunately, the cartridge and pierce pin assembly is well-designed to help compensate but it isn't foolproof.

No other 12-gram semi-auto pistol regulates the propellant gas AFAIK**.

Is it a huge problem? Not really unless you have to contend with cold weather. Just something to be aware of if you were thinking about buying one.


The other problem 'Mags have (which isn't really a problem) is user maintenance. An Automag valve needs a certain ammount of care. Yes, they'll shoot forever when properly maintained but that doesn't make them invincible. It's easy or a new user to make a mistake if they don't follow the manual (which is all the more reason why you should RTFM!). Plus, if you make a mistake putting together a Sydarm, you loose a 12 gram every time you test it out. You really should know what you're doing with a 'Mag before you pick up a Sydarm (IMHO). Again, this isn't really a problem, per se, just something someone might not like.


Poor 12-gram efficiency can also be a burden. Now, it's as efficient (or even moreso) than the earlier blowback pistols at around 20-25 shots per cartridge. It's enough that it's playable but it's not so generous that you can afford to be careless. Players who are used to high-efficiency pump markers - or who use a remote line like 10-shot - are liable to find issue with the Sydarm at first. When you plan on getting three tubes per cartridge and you only get two in reality, it can throw you off.

Plus, for remote line users, I can see how the placement of the air port about the back of the grip would be undesirable. Either you've got to loop your line over your hand or else re-route the port which means extra line on your marker. Again, not a big deal but I can see why someone might find issue with it.



I could go on but I think the simple thing to say is that there are a lot of ways to break a 'Mag. I love my 'Mags and I rarely, if ever, have any problems with them because I keep them well-maintained. I think it's a great design and I love just about everything about them.

I like the Sydarm for the same reason that other people might hate it - it's a 'Mag in a pistol format.


Bottom line is, if you like 'Mags and you like the idea of putting one in a pistol platform, then you'll like the Sydarm. If you don't like 'Mags though, there's nothing about the Sydarm that's going to change your mind.



** EDIT: I'm wrong. I was curious so I checked out the firing system for the Tiberius Tac-8/9. It uses a stacked "mag" system where the regulator is underneath the valve (they call it an "engine") in order to trim down the size a bit. Rather than having an on/off valve they use a complex sear system (kinda like the Fox) to grab the bolt so it doesn't continuously leak if you hold down the trigger. Now that I think about it, the Tac-8 has exactly the same type of trigger "snap" that the Desert Fox does. Some people like this, some people prefer 'Mags. I think the 'Mag has a smoother pull but both systems are inferior to a quality handgun's lockwork IMHO.

Anyhow, the Tac-8 is an interesting beast but is essentially the same as a Desert Fox with some major configuration changes. The operational theory is the same, though.

So the Tac-8 regulates the propellant gas but should be slightly more CO2 friendly because of the elimination of the on/off valve. (just as the Fox is compared to the 'Mag - fewer/shorter narrow passages)

Thank you for the enlightening post TM.

I love my sydarms. I have 4 (at this time) 2 original & 2 re-issue's. Ever since I got the barrel kits for them they are just awesome especially my centerfeed twistock J&J edge kit. I wish I had 3 more of those but the freak CF twisty's with 1.5" tip are still good.
It is a very differant game when you gotta think about the 8 shots you have loaded up and that you may get upto 24 shots (but not likely) I personally try to change my 12'ys sometime after the 16th shot if I can. I guess I'm just a wasteful kinda guy cause I don't care much for efficiency, probably cause when i started playing 20 shots on a 12 gram was the norm.
I've tried all kinds of pistols and always make my way back to my sydarms. I like the idea of the Tib8 but I always run into something and end up breaking a ball- maybe it's just me... I don't know.
If you know you can make your shots count with a pistol like this, it's a blast. Shootdown isn't that big of an issue for me cause you can only shoot so many times. As long as I can do my occasional 3-shot burst on a runner it's good. 4 or more continuous shots will get that shootdown.
What I did was cut down some 10-round tubes to make them 8-round tubes so i don't have those 2 extra's (I always hated that)
As mentioned above - proper maintanance will keep your sydarm (or any mag) shooting right. I tend to baby mine and over lube. But better to have to much oil than not enough. ;)

"My pump mag has been awesome as well as my Emag." (chem X)

First it's not an e-mag valve and a pump mag doesn't even compare, as far as I know, to the problems you get with a semi mag. It's like dealing with a 68 automag valve.

Bassically my problems have already been highlighted by trojanman. You have to know mags to have one (even if you read the manual it's easy to make a mistake), you have to matenience it, and under frequent use it will break. At big games it's not uncommon for me to shoot a case of paint through my pistol. My idea behind owning a sydarm was to both have a backup incase my pistol went down or the airfill station has an issue and tohave a backup incase someone bum rushed me.

The sydarm could furfill niether function. I don't want to have to matenience my backup gun more than my main gun. I don't want to have to take apart one of the most complex valves in paintball on a daily basis. I don't want to memorize a manual. I wanted my gun but lighter, with 8-shots, and running of a 12 gram.

If one in ten times I pulled the thing when getting rushed it decided not to work because it was too hot out or I hadn't cleaned it perfectly, or the sun was in the wrong part of the sky, etc then it wasn't worth having the bloody thing strapped to me the whole game to being with. Reliability is one of the most important aspects to me when looking at any gun. It's the reason why I went with palmer to begin with and still do.

So would have called yourself the 8-shot kid if it had worked out? :P


I understand your problems because it does happen. I only clean my sydarms after I use them. I don't usually know when I'll be able to play with them next as my local field won't allow them. If it has been a while since Ive used one, I will lube up the main O-rings and slip a few drops here and there- Ever since I started that, they've been very good. Could also be the weather- down here in So.Cal it's just magical :lol:

My Emag has a X valve and my pump mag has a level seven. The level seven is a standard valve. The X has just the lvl ten installed and not the ULT.
But your right.

If it matters any Tman saved me from a total meltdown with my emag. If not for him I would have sold it by now, however since he showed me where I went wrong I couldnt be happier with the gun.

For what its worth I never take a backup on the field.