Exactly what the topic says. I think something with objectives, like zone control, or person movement, would keep the action going all over the field.

zone captures.. flag stations. oooo

Fort vs Castle? and all fields around and inbetween. Each one of them are the main base area's worth the most points if a opposite color flag can be hung at it. Then mulitple other areas to control for points.

Oh and i think ill be coming prepared with a AT'd Sniper so i can fling the paint even more.

and thats the reason that he game is going to turn into a at battle. its just like watching the history of paintball all over again

Amen Brim - I know I'll rock an SC gun next year, only reason I didnt this year is I didnt own one.

i found it quite funny that red team. Seeing as how it was SCP had a large amount of AT sniper fanatics on that side. So late in the day i finally threw the CF body on and went out so i could spray paint. It really sux having SC feed with 10 guys with AT's just blazing away at you.

dont worry though, ill have a gun for every occasion. Im thinking S6 for next year, and leaving my phantom SC unless i build one or buy another then thatll be strictly SC.

Well its not about what your shooting really, i don't care what people shot, I just know I enjoy playing SC more at PP events, thats just me. Also, if playing SC vs AT snipers is tough, do play SC vs semis? (not trying to sound as an insult or anything).

i used my phantom during spring castle. Which was my 2nd time using it. Used it at March meltdown for first time.

I used my 11 shot kp this year. Last year I used my side tube pistol all day and I had an absolute blast doing so. The first year (PP1) I was going to use my sniper but just before the siren went to start the game my reg blew and I had to switch guns, I got a splatty from andy and went to town. I later switched over to my phantom with a DF body. The next year (PP2) I got to use my sniper it was fun but not as much as my stock fed phantom would have been.

I cant see a future where I use a hopper for pandemonium.

PAPA last spring castle I played the first hour with my duckslide, after I couldnt get my goggs to stop fogging I switched over to my Emag for a little spray and prey with my emag capped at 9BPS (self imposed cap).

Ben, glad to hear youre still using the Emag!

Instead of a big game I'd have a series of rotating pump-rec games. Some capture the flag, some elimination. Use all the fields over the course of the day, maybe organize a 'stock only' game or two. Set aside a field (Maybe the pallets behind the chrony range) and let people play 1 v 1 or 2 v 2 personal challenges. Do a "mini castle" game like at PP1.

For a "Big Game" format I'd do away with pre-reg for a particular side and instead have all players draw their side randomly. Break up SCP, MCB, Scenario Geeks, CanCons etc., require arm band tape on both arms and use a simple format with zone of control flags and a base flag.

Just my $0.02 adjusted for inflation.

-rat

Some diffrent objectives like multiple flags and zone control games would be nice for next year. And maybe not just have 2, 3+ hour long games and maybe have 4 or 5, hour long games all with a diffrent twist. I think it would make it more interesting. PP4 was awesome, i had a blast, but no matter what there is room for improvement in anything. And a night game or 2 would be awesome and it would encourage people to stay the weekend and also be nice and cool to prevent massive amounts of very sweaty dudes in the deadbox just stinking :lol: :P

This is mostly re-post from the colab threads - but I didn't feel like typing it all over again...

After thinking some on what has been very successful and fun in past PP games (IMO) I've come up with this which isn't by a stretch "original" but more is an amalgam of what I feel has been both fun and enjoyable to me in the prior PP games. I adjusted the point bonuses for achieving specific goals so that not any single focus will be rewarding enough to simply do all day long and still stand a chance of winning. With the diversity of points and the point spread for things I hope that it will force each faction to think and diversify, to make pushes toward multiple goals and hopefully be engaging and challenging for all!

These plans require support staff however, volunteers to keep time and score via radio which can at times be somewhat complex. I would like to think though, that having 2 Main Flag Stations, 2-4 Control Point Stations, and up to 4 Command Staff personnel to keep track of - that it shouldn't be too difficult to handle. Most of all, I think the added objectives with multiple opportunities to garner points will equate to more "fun" and serve to keep the game dynamic, engaging and keep it exciting and fun for all involved.

I for one very much enjoyed the Control Points / Occupation zones in previous games. During PP1 I spent most of the entire game engaged in little "mini-wars" to capture occupation zones that we would capture and loose throughout the day - I found that very exiting and challenging! I also very much enjoyed the news in the field in past games when we had "taken out" members of the enemy Command Staff. In the occasions that I personally shot out Jim Masse myself - I dearly enjoyed it - even if they didn't count for points at the time! Absolutely no hard feelings toward Jim at all - I really like the guy - but it was rather exhilarating to have "taken out the General" personally - again even if the points didn't matter at the time.

It can be a hard thing to follow the K.I.S.S. line of thought yet add some layers of fun to a game without making it too complex. I'd like to hope that the suggestions I've put forward (which again aren't original or mine) would achieve just that - keep things simple yet offer up enough complexity to make things interesting and fun for all involved. I've tried to draw from memory what things I found most enjoyable about prior games - and that is what I offer for consideration. Tell me what you guys think.

____________________________________________________________________


Main Flag Stations:

Main Flag Stations will be each teams perspective "home base". They will be in a defensible area (castle, center of town structures etc.) The flag itself will consist of a length of PVC pipe 6-8' in length with either a red or blue flag attached with zip-ties to the stave. The flag will be placed upright in a mounting base so that the flag will remain upright and visible. A flag pull from a main flag station means that OPFOR enters the enemy home base and retrieves the enemy flag and then successfully returns the flag to their own home base to be awarded 3 points. Insert / Spawn points would be in close proximity of main flag stations, and preferably in areas that could offer people reinserting viable cover - to avoid the "fish in a barrel" phenomenon. Successful "flag pulls" will be reported via radio by refs / field monitors / participants and recorded by time / score keepers.

Control Point Stations:

Control Point Stations will consist of a length of PVC pipe 6-8' in length that has a pulley mounted at the top and at mid stave. There will be a length of cord between the pulleys and mounted on the cord will be both red and blue flags. The Control Point Station flag pole will have a mounting base to keep them upright and visible. The occupying faction may then raise the appropriate colors to indicate occupation of the control point. Each Control Point Station will be fitted with / have attached a hand held radio with which to report the occupation of the Control Point station to volunteer time / score keepers. Occupation of a Control Point Station for 30 minutes will reward the occupying team with 1 point per 30 minute / half hour increment. Control Point Stations should be based in a defensible area (Tower, castle, center field with cover) to offer cover for assaulting forces and defending forces. Occupation times will be taken and kept via bystanders / volunteers through radio contact.

Command Staff:

Each perspective faction will have a General and Lieutenant that will be designated as "Command Staff". Command staff will have a point value for elimination. Each time a Command Staff Member is eliminated 1 point will be rewarded the opposing team. Command Staff member will carry a laminated badge indicating that they are Command Staff, after each elimination on them it will be the responsibility of the Command Staff member to use a hole punch to punch their badge each time they are eliminated and report eliminations via radio to the volunteer time / score keepers. Elimination of Command Staff may be attempted by any person afield.

___________________________________________________________________


In regard to mercs / missions and scenario elements in PP games:

Truthfully, I don't have much experience regarding Scenario ball. I grasp the concept of missions, mercs etc., however I'm not sure that the addition of such things will improve the overall enjoyability of the game when compared to the possible confusion or complexity such additions could result in. Granted, the concept of a Command Staff, and Control Point Stations are direct scenario elements and personally I think that is just fine for the purpose of a PP game. The concept is simple, easy to implement and it does add quite an interesting / fun concept as objectives to garner points / windfall opportunity to get points. Most of all it adds needed diversity of objectives and serves to keep the game from stalemating into the "fish in a barrel" situation experienced at PP4 - that simply isn't enjoyable for any side that suddenly finds itself "pinned" with little to be done to change the situation.

Regarding missions, in a sense we already have that in the pursuance of elimination of Command Staff and the occupation of Control Point Stations. I would suppose that those concepts could be elaborated on in regard to further mission objectives / bonus objectives. For example, for every 3 eliminations of Command Staff personnel the opposing team would be granted a 3 point bonus. Or for every hour and a half of occupying a Control Point Station continuously you would earn a 3 point bonus. Such missions would be doable, and not add too much complexity.

I think however that we want to be conscientious regarding the points rewarded for particular acts as such things determine directly what objectives will be focused on. For example, in past games the points garnered for Command Staff eliminations were such that Command Staff members essentially weren't able to play in the game for fear of the point loss with their repeated eliminations. I think you have to find a balance in regard to points awarded and still retain the ability of Command Staff members to actually continue to play the game along with everyone else. Also you have to balance the points per objective ratio so that difficult objectives are more rewarding - yet not so rewarding that you can afford all other objectives. In the suggested rules / game parameters I've taken that into mind.

Flag pulls from Main Flag Stations are worth 3 points due to the difficulty of the objective.

Control Point stations are worth 1 point per half hour of occupation, less than a flag pull but still enough to warrant the sacrifice of men to take and keep the objective.

Command Staff eliminations are worth 1 point per elimination - enough to make the effort worth while, yet not enough to prevent the Command Staff members from playing, again it also provides a diversity of objectives that happens to be really fun to pull off and gives you "bragging" rights later.

With this point system spread you can still have a team focus on hoarding up on a Main Flag Station to do the whole "fish in a barrel" thing - but you would stand a significant chance of loosing the overall game from guys keeping and controlling Control Point Stations and getting Command Staff eliminations.

Likewise, if you ignore the Main Flag Stations and focus solely on the Control Point Stations and Command Staff eliminations you could still loose the game in the long run.

I think its a good balance. Simple concept of objectives that will be relatively easy to implement and have function smoothly in the field - yet still do so much in regard to maintaining a dynamic, enjoyable and action filled day of ball for all participants.

In regard to the final battle at the end of the day, I'm not at all opposed to that. Ultimately that will be a thing to be determined by interest among participants. I personally could take it or leave it.

As to the format, I think it would be neat to have the final battle based on each faction with their Command Staff situated at opposite ends of a equally defensible field with the Command Staff acting as Generals of old, sending forth their troops to do battle. The objective of the final battle would be for the opposing team to eliminate the enemy Command Staff members as many times as possible within the hour long final battle. The point spread would be the same as the big game, one point awarded for each Command Staff elimination.

Such a format would be interesting to say the least. It could end up in a stalemate, or a team who is down on points could stand a chance of picking up some if they are aggressive enough or hungry enough after playing all day.

____________________________________________________________________


I agree with Rat that the whole pre-reg side thing shouldn't be for next year. Split us up a bit, do some socializing and get to know some fellow pump players from other organizations and walks of life - I don't think that would be a bad thing at all. I'd committed to "switching sides" anyway next year to play with Last RiTes just to do it because I've come go dearly love the guys of that team from past PP games.

I also very much like the idea of rotating pump / SC games, pick up games for the entire weekend. I think that would be a blast personally. We could also do a short big game in the morning and then do the small pump / SC games in the afternoon. I know that a lot here like the Big Game format, I guess we'll have to go with consensus of what everyone wants from PP and go with that though.

QFT.

Grabbing a DF AT Sniper isn't playing pump. You might as well get a mech autococker and play with that - it'll save you some work.

I would like to see a theme or scenario, although nothing over the top. Having a theme allows for interesting missions as well as a chance for people to dress up or play the part. The theme should be something simple so that the game doesn't have to be over the top.

i also think that having command staff is ok, as long as it is only one or two to a side and that they are not main objectives for points. Sure, reward the team that can assassinate the general, but not with so many points that the game becomes who can take over the other team's base.

Most importantly, I think the leadership for running the game should be delegated to more than two people. Putting on a game is a lot of work for anyone, so having separate roles for PR, props, game design, sponsors and giveaways, and coordination with EMR.

Anyhoos, just some things I've been thinking about.

I'd be perfectly content to NOT ever hear the sound of an AT'ed Sniper or CCM gun again at a PP event.

I agree, it is like bringing in a semi to the event. It is supposed to be a pump event, that very aspect of it is what inspires most all of us to ardently count the moments every year until the next event - to get away from the semi dominated world of crass, "agg" semi-automatic dominated paintball that we are all forced to live and play in most of the time.

The AT'ed Snipers and CCM's are practically semis, IMO they have no place at a PP game - period. Them being present opens the door to the brinkmanship that has ruined mainstream paintball in the first place.

I in honesty would prefer AT'ed hopper guns banned entirely from the event, IMO it fu<ks up the fun and weekend for all the other people involved that wait a year and travel miles to play a true "pump" game. You can go to any field and have folks fire at you with a semi-auto rate of fire these days, however only PP events offer the option of NOT having that. Sadly, I noticed a lot of AT'ed Sniper and CCM fire at PP_IV. I found it rather disgusting and depressing actually.

PP_IV was the first PP event that I have ever heard of a person being "overshot". It happened this year, and the over shooting came from a dude sporting a AT'ed Sniper or CCM gun.

I don't like em, and I don't think they have a place at PP. It screws things up for all the other people looking for a pump game, not a imitation semi-auto game.

I wouldn't mind a theme. Like Pirates, or Spider Pigs. However I'd personally suggest leaving it at that. A "theme." Not an actual scenario. Scenario includes special rules and complexity that just muddies the waters. However a "theme" can make for a central organized costume layout for us all, and if somebody writes about it for the magazine it gives a story to follow. Moreso than just "this side v. that side." A story based game write-up is much more interesting to read.

As far as the game format. SPE is nothing but a bunch of open play games spread out throughout the day. That's fun and all, I enjoy it. But not as much as I enjoy the Big Game format that we had at PP3! That game was my favorite of all 4 so far, even though it had half the numbers PP4 had.

Which brings up another item. We are bringing in a good sized audience. About 160 players this year. And since overall I hear people having a good time and wanting to come back, I can see PP5 hitting the 200 mark. In which case why not increase the field layout. From the far Tower by the airfield, to Numbskull, over to Rat's Nest. We have enough players, and we need the space to spread out the control flags.

Control Flags I'll have built in a couple more weeks when I go to EMR for the Apoc. Now Viper event. I'll build 5, and give them to Blue. They will be EMR property if he wishes to keep them so we can have them for next year (and any other EMR event, they can replace that damn stick in the road cone system). I'll probably make it a 10' tall flag pole, so the flag can be visible from hundreds and hundreds of miles away. The usual 2 flags, red and blue. Wish stake holes on the support beams so that strong winds and hard tugs on the rope won't topple it down. Though fat people running into it I can't guarantee anything.

I've also suggested in another thread the idea of Mercs. Not a huge force that will overwhelm for 3 hours straight. Rather a small group between 5 and 10 rent-a-thugs, bought for a small period of time. Say.... 20 minutes. They won't be eliminated with special paint, or only by grenades. They won't have law rockets or have magic powers. It's just like regular mercs. Hired muscle that can be shot and killed like the average dog at Vick's estate.

But that also brings up the next proposal. Missions. Again no magic needed, no genies, or airplanes. A very basic and simplistic mission. Hold a building for 15 minutes. Go and retrieve an item at a certain location. Nothing with loops or strings to wiggle around. As well these won't be worth the main points, the flag stations are the bread and butter of points. Missions would only be a couple bonus points.
Also, with the missions. No radio transmission to decode, and no never ending amount of them. Maybe 1 at the top of each hour, that's about it. Each hour, the general (or whoever's in charge at the base at the time) opens up the envelope at the base for that specific time slot.

Another thing brought up. The hour break in the middle of the game. Many said they didn't think it was needed. I'm personally fine either way. I can play through, or if more want that break to take a breather then I'd see no harm. So I'll make a poll and let's see what the results are. Play through, or middle game break.

Final Battle. Why not? Half hour final battle. Have say 3 objectives in the middle of a field. One dead center, 2 on either edge mut still in mid-field. It makes for a much broader assault situation. More is going on at the end, if there's a stalemate at one spot then try a force at another spot. Gives both sides hope, because if one side gets the center and surrounds it... even with like 10 min. left. It might as well be over. However a spread out force like the 3 objectives won't necessarily have that happen. Oh, and the mercs can split up and play for both sides I'd think. So it's not all one side getting those extra players, but it allows them to enjoy that final 1/2 hour.


And Sunday can be both open play and a tournament. I'd really rather see Friday and Sunday allotted for open play, keeping Saturday a Big Game concept. That's what seperates PP from the rest. It's our calling card. There's open pump play events all year long across the nation. This is the only large organized Big Game of pumps only.

I see where evreyone is coming from with the whole anti AT thing. The AT's dont make the gun overshoot its the person using it. I used an AT Sniper at PP4 but the only time it was used was to provide cover fire for advancing teammates, it was only really effective at making some noise and fling paint thru the trees. I personally didnt witness any overshooting myself, but i'm sure it happened, there is always at least 1 bad egg. I planned to use my duckslide all day but had problems with spiking and breaking paint, plus i feel i shoot more acurately with my sniper, i use it more. 3 or 4 bps from an AT gun is still better than 15+ from a semi (plus with someone pumping wildly takes the accuracy away). I'm not trying to start an argument or anything i just dont want to see AT guns get banned or anything. Those that shoot them would be upset and i would hate to see anyone shy away from PP events for any reason

Me, I'm not trying to start and argument either, however 3-4 BPS is what can be expected from your average run of the mill mechanical Semi-auto.

If I want to play against semi's I can choose to do that at my local fields. At a PP game, I don't want to play against semi's or their equivalents.

Honestly I don't see what's better between 3-4 BPS and 15+. They both are overbearing in regard to firepower when you are dealing with an average group of guys that are maybe doing 1 BPS.

I don't see the necessity, aside from trying to have a firepower advantage over every other person you are playing with. (if everyone else is using SC equipment).

Then again, by having such equipment on field and using it you force all other folks playing to "upgrade" on the brinkmanship scale to using AT'ed guns to compete, or to operate at an even greater disadvantage to whomever is operating the AT'ed equipment.

And that is exactly my point - and what Brimstone eluded to. By the AT'ed guns simply being on the field you change the very face of what PP was intended to be in the first place - A PUMP GAME. By introducing and implementing the AT technology you effectively turn a PUMP game into a semi game - which is not what PP was intended to be in the first place. Again, I am not arguing with you or anyone else - but simply stating the fact of the truth.

Stock Class in and of itself originated to give all participants an equal playing field. To use similar equipment under similar circumstances to allow all participants the luxury of playing on an even playing field. Stock Class is all about leveling things to an equal level for all - that is the essence of Stock Class!

Stock class is competing on equal terms. To bring an AT'ed gun to a game of mostly SC players ISN"T equal terms. Those using the AT'ed equipment are at a distinct advantage in regard to firepower, they are a notch up on the brinkmanship scale. As a result, you force others to resort (lower themselves) to using similar equipment and as a result of that you have effectively killed what PP was supposed to be about in the first damned place!

Why should anyone have to have the advantage? Why should anyone NEED to bring an AT gun to a largely SC event in the first place? Why can't you be content to play with the stuff everyone else is using and be fair about things? Why do you feel the need to raise the bar of brinkmanship? Why push the envelope (it's been pushed already)? Why not just leave the AT gun at home and come and compete on equal terms with everyone else and keep the spirit of SC alive and well among us - in equality and in the simple joy and love of SC paintball?

As Brimstone eluded to, I suppose I can't expect any different. Paintball has been down this path before. The incessant level of one-up-man-ship has played out again and again in not only paintball but in human history. I guess I can expect no different with the PP events. People are people, we one-up one another until we are all on the same page due to necessity. Still, in my mind PP meant a pump event - not a pseudo-semi event.

It is up to us to keep it that way - a PUMP event. It is up to us to nip in the bud the impulse to even start on the whole "brinkmanship" thing. It is up to us to ensure that we are on equal terms as things were intended to be in the first place.

It's about fun - not so much winning. The presence of "brinkmanship" involved in the use of AT equipment is testament that some folks aren't so much interested in the fun of competition - but are more interested in garnering advantage for the win.

If PP becomes an AT hose-fest I'm not interested in coming anymore. I'd be better off saving my time and money and just going to a local field - and so would every person that sees this situation as I do.

If AT equipment becomes too prevalent at PP events (as prevalent as it was this year at PP_IV) then I'm not going to come anymore.

That is my feelings on it.

Six, you type prettier than a two-dollar whore...

You too, Chem.

:)

Me, I will just be happy to SEE PP5, even if it becomes a fat guy towel slapping fight in a sauna.

D.

ON TOPIC...

I am a firm believer in the KISS principle. And also a believer that zone-control is the best big-game format.

I'd prefer to see something similar to PP3, but I would do away with capturing the home-base flags. It's a PITA carrying them back to re-set, and their presence next to the reinsertion points encourages camping.

Themes are nice. Simple "go there, do this" missions are also nice. As long as we don't get carried away with either.

Re. multiple shorter games...

They do an event at a local field here in Ottawa consisting of two big teams on a big field, playing five games of straight-up capture-the-flag. It's fun, but it takes more time to run. IMO, there is too much down time. We had seven hours of play-time at Pandemonium this year. Breaking it up into small games, you would easily lose two hours of that, especially if you are switching fields and formats between games. And what about the poor schmuck who gets shot first every game? He travels all the way to EMR to play 20 minutes of paintball!

Re. more volunteers to run the event...

I may be available to help next year, at least with the planning. Someone ask me in the springtime, eh?


...OFF TOPIC

(1) Let's remember that we are discussing "Pump Pandemonium", not "Stock-class craziness". DF & hoppers are allowed.

(2) Personally, I only noticed auto-triggering once during the day, so I don't think it's a real problem. I also experienced no over-shooting.

(3) Maybe it's because I use a Sniper (for which AT is an expensive aftermarket option), but why are none of you complaining about all those AT-equipped Phantoms?

We're on the right track here if for nothing else than because we're talking about this NOW, well in advance of when we'll need to make a decision about anything. Time is an asset at this point and I think we need to use it.


I'm also glad to see that everyone is willing to pick up a task for themselves. Making patches, shirts, running the game and everything that needs to be done to pull this next event together right.

I talked with Noodles and she wants to write the game rules/scenario. Someone has to compile all these suggestions and distill them down into a functional format and such. I think the idea is to go ahead and write up some basic guidelines, have a few different "flavors" and if/when we pick a theme we can incorporate it then. Since it'll be a "working" document, we can keep the latest rev up on the forum for input, additions/removals and alterations. We'll discuss all the suggestions listed so far and hopefully we can come up with a "Rev -" shortly. I think that process will help to organize all these suggestions and incorporate them into a functional format. Nothing complicated, of course, but just a system by which to implement what everyone wants to see put into the game.



As for AT:

You can't ban AT outright for two very important reasons. One, because many markers including all things Nelson have it "built in." You can't expect everyone to be able to run stock class so it stands to reason that there will be some people who have autotriggers and hoppers and that will use them. Two, because once you get into the business of fine-picking people's equipment you open the door for nitpicking everything else. It's akin to turning someone away from a "stock class" game because they have a PVC elbow/stick that stacks more than one ball above the breech.

What we CAN do is to issue a policy statement in the game description. It is understood that the purpose of this game is to have fun in an all-pump environment. Part of what makes that environment fun is the lack of high ROF markers. While autotriggers aren't inherrently bad for the spirit of the game -after all, a skilled player can fire a non-AT'd gun close to or as fast as one with an AT- their overuse can contribute to a poor atmosphere. Before signing up to play in this game, you should understand that excessive use of an AT is frowned upon but not explicitly prohibited.

Along with that, we can make a few open policy rules that simplify things a bit. For example, we could have a policy on loaders:

* Gravity feed only, no agitation. There are two exceptions to this rule:
ex1) Springfeeds that hold 20 rounds or less plus one in the breech
ex2) Motorized hoppers with the battery(ies) or other power source removed


That's one way to limit the effectiveness of an autotrigger, still keep within the spirit of the game and not ban anyone's gear outright.

<_<

That ain't much of a feat.

:lol:

I gotta posture a bit in the hopes that no blokes will bring their skeavy-arsed AT contraptions next round ;)

Well, if we try to eliminate the AT, then the next thing on the ban block will definitely be lever-actions.

Maybe the most classic/traditional way for this event to proceed is that everyone needs to make their own paintball launcher...

... on the field itself...

...using only the materials found at hand!

(I am rooting for Spock and Mr. Lincoln)

D.

Seriously, let us create an environment of equality and sportsmanship that will transend the specific equipment used. It is, afterall, people who shoot paintballs, not 12g's.

Finally, if we are REALLY serious about leveling the playing field, we should all agree to compete in the nude like the ancient Greek Olympians.

When I'm talking about AT's, I'm talking about those folks using a Phantom or a sniper with a hopper (that happens to be a motorized one) kicking out 3-5 BPS / ie a pump gun that is the equivalent of a mechanical semi.

I find there to be a significant differance between someone using a VSC or SC Phantom with a built in AT and someone using a Phantom or Sniper / CCM gun with an AT and motorized hopper. There is a significant difference in the firepower too.

In regard to "SC Craziness" I never once mentioned anything about a conventional Sniper or CCM gun with a hopper (absent the AT). Yes, it is a pump event my only gripe is to keep it that way. IMO there isn't much difference between a AT'ed Sniper/CCM or Phantom with a motorized hopper and a mechanical semi in regard to the firepower at your disposal. While technically such guns are "pumps" they do put other folks on the field at a disadvantage.

I don't say that (Jeffy) out of a sense of any "SC Craziness" elite / agg rhetoric - I mention it as a matter of fact in regard to firepower. Most importantly, I mention it to help keep things in perspective and in the attempt to avoid what as I view as a deterioration of the PP events through "Brinkmanship Craziness".

I'd like to keep the event on as even a keel as possible for all involved (not just me).

So often in this life you don't see much "equality" in anything - I'd like to deliver some to the folks who wait all year to attend the PP event - that would perhaps be refreshing and enjoyable! (man I hit that exclamation point with flair!) ;)

In regard to things staying on topic - they have been. Things we would like to see less of fall in line with things we'd like to see next year. :lol:

Damn Drum - you is one kinky mofo!!!

But I do like your style...

B)

I've got it!

We require that anyone who uses a hopper (can't be motorized) place one or two of those plastic practice golf balls inside of it. :rolleyes:



As for being naked, I have the feeling that rule would give some players a lot more of an advantage than others.

It would be like hunting for moobs.

Im jumping in with my opnion...

If they start banning equipment for a REC game I will probally willingly just not go.

Case in point Del Hobbies Yankee pump challenge.. they had 10 teams preregged for this game then they started messing with the rules and all 10 teams asked for there money back... They went from open class pump.. to the pump guys cant use agitating hoppers but every one else is now allowed to use semi pistols...

Needless to say the event died..

Its silly auto triggers have been on guns since before CCM ever even existed why pigion hole out just CCM guns.. for that matter ban bushmaster pumps with hypertech internals you can get those going too.. or why not ban Lapco guns because they have a locking auto trigger.. or why not ban double barreled guns because hey.. thats over shooting any way.

See what I mean.. whats with the hate.

Well, the "hate" starts when folks playing a pump only game are getting auto-balled 5+ times before they can get their hand up or yell "out". Again, that is more of a player -oriented problem than it is tech-based.

If we, as a larger group, immediately condemn and deal with the specific players that are over-shooting and teach them another way, then the resulting perfect world would allow us to shoot whatever gun platform we want, from semi to electro-hose, and still have an enjoyable time.

I think a far better approach for limiting shooters at a pumps-only game is to make it completely open class and then charge $200 a case for paintballs.

Not only would the field owners LOVE us better, but only the richest douchbags would be able to afford to hose and overshoot, and it would not be for as long.

Bring on all the pump technology you want from AT's to laser scopes... let's teach the children to use them all right!

D.

Also another big thing, For next year the fields need to be mowed! or atleast most of them. For example... if not the entire speedball field atleast big pathways should be made through it so theres still places to jump into the weeds but yet places that are easily accessible.

Alot of ppl wore shorts and t-shirts and their legs and arms got beat up pretty bad.

for the AT topic, I used it on my phantom 2 or 3 times. but for cover fire purposes only and it was only maybe a max of 20 balls that i fired. As stated, some ppl can shoot almost as fast without using a AT anyway.. which my phantoms pretty fast without it, just that my UC tends to come undone if i pump that fast or use AT.

The current sniper im building isnt AT which is probably what ill be using. although i plan on buying a S6.

Hopper regulations is fine with me. I dont need a electronic hopper for pump. if i dry fire.. oh well.

Six, I can do 3-5bps with no AT and a stick feed. Yet I was using a Phantom with a hopper, yet I didn't use the AT the entire event. And I only had AT used against me once all event for a whole second. Otherwise everybody was single shooting.

4bps is equal to a POS wally world semi when it's actually working. Sorry but it is erroneous on all accounts to compare the very limited AT we had at PP4 to that of "every other game with semis."


And yes. Forgot to add that from the previous thread. There DEFINATELY needs to be some field maintanence performed. That grass sucked.

u could be in charge of it meph! i could just see u now.. driving across the field on the big tractor. that is if u could get it running. Bob was the only one i knew that could start it up.

may have to resort to scissors and lots and lots of weed whackers... >.<

Six, I agree with all your points.
A very well thought out analysis and fine suggestions.

Honestly at past PP events I did use my auto triggers.. but mostly and really only when the case for it was warrented..

IE people charging, you charging.. or laying cover fire for a team mate to move up..

granted next PP I can tell you I wont have a pump that has an auto trigger so much as a " Scare the crap out of the oposing team trigger " try as hard as I could to tune out my pump timmy's to only shoot once when the bolt is closed I cant... So I can make noice.. but I cant fire paint :)

Thanks Chris, I very much appreciate that.

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Understand, I am NOT and have NOT called for a "ban" on anything. I have however made my opinion abundantly clear in that I personally don't think that DF AT'ed guns with motorized hoppers capable of laying down a wall of paint don't much have a place at a PP event. I've made my opinion known.

I personally heard "some" AT action going on, but admittedly not much. I do distinctly remember StrokerAce returning to the bunkhouse quite steamed after having been shot by an AT'ed Sniper or CCM gun 13 times - that is a PP first in my memory. I'll add that StrokerAce stated he had called out during the first 3 hits - and the balls kept coming. IMO stuff like that doesn't need to happen and shouldn't happen at a PP event. I've enjoyed PP events in the past because something like that just DIDN'T happen - well it did this year and that's one too many times in my book.

I don't much care if folks run such equipment truly - I just don't think its necessary at a PP game. I won't use it personally because I don't feel that I need to have an advantage over guys that way. I don't want to use the extra firepower as an advantage over guys I'm supposed to be competing with as equals for fun and frankly, I don't feel I need that edge. I don't understand why anyone feels the need to take that advantage at a PP game. In my mind it goes against the very spirit of the game. I'm totally NOT being elitist about things either.

Again, I'm not calling for a ban - nor would such a thing come to fruition if I were to. That aside, I'm done with the subject and will simply hope that folks don't feel the need to use DF, AT'ed guns with motorized hoppers and then puke paint with them like a semi at a pump game...and there we are - done. :)

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As to scenario themes, I'm very leery of too much stuff. While I did enjoy PP2, many folks complained that it was too ungainly due to the complexity involved. Still, this is a thread about what you'd like to see and a forum to "brainstorm" ideas for PP_V, so let her rip when you get the rough draft done Noodles. ;)


A great point (and I remind myself) is repeated in this thread and that is that PP events are still some of the best ball around to play for us pump type players. I concur with that sentiment as many other have eluded to. All of the different factions that come to EMR to play PP are the best guys in the game to play with. Regardless of what we come up with, I'm sure it'll be fun whatever way it goes.

i agree with no motorized hoppers, i saw a couple halo's on guns, that was wierd. I used a Winchester w/ a locklid, good ole shake and shoot. Shells of a motorized hopper is ok, but i was surprised at how many motorized hoppers i saw. I know some people like gutted revvies, thats cool, but i agree that a force fed hopper is a little overkill in an all pump game. I mean i could throw my pulse on my sterling but what is the point in adding something that needs batteries on a pump, i thought that was the whole reason for using a pump gun.

Hoppers..... We don't need no stinkin hoppers.....

That about sums up my thoughts....

I did get lit up twice but only 4 or 5 rounds to my 1... it wasn't to bad... It does motivate you to make that one shot count next time....

I think a non-motorized hopper clause wouldn't be too bad... The AT aspect is something there's no way around... I didn't see any SHO's ???

Anyway's I had a blast this time like the others.... :bang:

Here is a rough copy of some ideas for game play at PPV. It is of course up for revision.

I tried to incorporate things that people have expressed they liked about past games and try to take out some of the things that caused confusion or frustration.

Let me know what you think about the game play or let me know if I missed anything. I'll also be brainstorming for possible themes for a poll.

Thanks!


Proposed Game Play for Pump Pandemonium V


Field Layout:

The fields that will be in use are Castle Aaarrgh, Ferryman’s Air field, Iroquois Invasion, Margaritaville, Castle Numbskull, Bonehead’s, Speedball field, and Fort Worr.

The woods that are adjacent to the airfield and Numbskull are also in use up to the marked tape line. Sergeant Splatter’s is not part of the play field nor is the field and woods behind Fort Worr.

The road leading up to the Castle is not part of the play field, nor the woods on wall two. Players may not use the field beyond the woods of wall three, Fort RTD.

Insertion Points:

Team one will have their base at Castle Aaarrgh, with an insertion point inside the netting between walls one and four. Team two will have their insertion point inside Fort Worr. In the case of a hot insertion, teams will be able to insert at their normal insertion point and at netted areas just outside of their respective bases.

Command Staff:

Command Staff will be limited to one leader per side. This person will be in charge of assigning missions to his team and bringing any concerns to the event staff. At any time the leader may relinquish his command to whomever he chooses by giving the new leader the command insignia (i.e. arm tape). No command decisions can be made from the dead box, but lack of commander does not keep missions from being executed, but will keep them from being scored until a commander is on the field. Assassination of a commander is worth points, but not a significant amount (10?).

Territory Control:

There will be three territory flags in play between Castle Aaarrgh and Fort Worr. They will be pulley system flag stations with two flags, one of each team’s color. Flags will be scored every 20 minutes and each flag will be worth 20 points. Flags will be on different fields, but also visible from the rec center in order to make scoring them on a regular basis easier.

Game Schedule:

Game will begin at 10 am unless teams are not in place at the designated time. The Game will run 10-1:00 with a half-hour break to switch sides. Play will resume from 2:00-5:00. The final battle will be from 5:30-6:30.



Missions:

On the hour, six missions in total. Each mission is worth 75 points. Missions include item retrieval, capture the other team’s flag while defending your own, escort mission, and a puzzle mission. Refs at each insertion will reveal the details of the missions on the hour. The mission will be read aloud by the ref and posted in the base. Once the mission is completed at the base, the ref will mark the mission completed on the mission description paper and walkie-talkie it back to the rec center. The commander must be present to score the mission. If the base is overrun or item captured before commander is present, the mission will not be scored. Missions only expire at the end of game play for breaks.

Final Battle:

Capture the flag from Tower in the Airfield or tower in front of Numbskull. Play must be on the field between woods and road. Woods are off limits. There will be two insertions, one at the start of the final battle and one half-way through. As soon as one team’s base flag is pulled, the final battle is over. If neither flag has been pulled within the hour, each commander chooses two others to go into 3 vs 3 last man standing sudden death match on Margaritaville. Each side has 60 rounds to distribute however they like. Final battle worth 300 points.

I should have known the AT thing would come up. You really can't do anything about it unless you get into specialized games, like SC Phantoms only here, open class Snipers only there, but then you get away from the big game atmosphere.


Here's an idea. Let's buy 200 Talons. With everybody shooting the same gun, it truly is a game of skill.



As for themes, an all pump Castle, Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, Star Wars (Moon of Endor)

I'd be wary of movie themes because there is a lot involved and a tendency to want to script the day and have special characters.

I think a theme like zombie invasion, pirates vs ninja, fairy tale land, or space invaders would be easier to plan for and lends itself to simplicity.

*thanks for posting the field map, Fryloc!