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Title: Canada's Defence
Description: Defence of Canad's Regional Borders


Red Leaf - February 15, 2004 05:28 PM (GMT)
After some thought and scanning of other posts, with particular reference to "Use of Weapons" (led by Boardz), I have come up with an idea for the defence of the region. It is still only in the early development stages but, by posting it here, I am hoping that regional members will offer their opinions, recommendations etc.
Before submitting the proposal, it will be necessary to set a number of Universal Freedoms for Regional Members as a benchmark from which to work.

These, it should be pointed out, are not exhaustive by any means and are open to individual interpretation and criticisms. They should, however, be honoured within individual Nations, but shall become forfeit when relating to matters of Regional defence. These Universal Freedoms (henceforth referred to as UF) shall apply to all Regional members.

Those Regional members, who are also UN members, shall also be bound to UN resolution. If any resolution threatens a Nation's security, these may be superseded by the UF's for the sole purpose of internal security. In the case of Regional security, the Canadian Constitution shall be the prevailing legislation, with all other Nation, UN, and regional legislation being frozen until Regional security is considered to be stable enough to re-implement any frozen legislation. Regional Government would decide this with particular emphasis on intelligence and the Defence cabinet's appraisal.
The proposal for Canada's defence is one of aggressive intelligence (AI).
The term citizen’s referrers to all inhabitants of one Nation. The term Region applies to all Nations within the Canada region.

Proposed Universal Freedoms

1) All citizens shall have the freedom of speech;
2) All citizens shall have the freedom of religious affiliation;
3) All citizens shall have the freedom of choice;
4) All citizens shall have the freedom to defend themselves from harm;
5) All citizens shall have the freedom of speech and thought;
6) All citizens have the right to defend their Nation and Region sovereignty

Nations may suspend, if necessary, all other UF's with the exception of article 6. On a Regional level, the appropriate Minister may suspend all UF's and if necessary Nation UF's.

Proposed Nation Universal Freedoms

1) All Nations have the right to participate in regional affairs;
2) All Nations have the right to abstain from regional politics;
3) All Nations have the right to internal sovereignty and self-governance;
4) All Nations have the right to assemble an internal defence force;
5) All Nations have the duty to honour the Canadian Constitution;
6) All Nations have the duty to defend Regional safety;
7) All Nations, upon request from the UN Delegate or Defence Official shall waive
all UF's 1) through 4)

Both citizen's and Nation's duty/right to care for themselves have been omitted, as this lends itself more toward Social Policy rather than defence. It is however, necessary to determine the above as rights and duties.

The physical act of gathering intelligence is, quite literally, a minefield scattered with various resolutions and codes of conduct. The following proposals are should not be interpreted literally and are, as the rest, still a work in progress.
I have tried to elaborate on some points to try to show my train of thought. Questions, comments, and anything else would be appreciated.

The Role and Responsibilities of Aggressive Intelligence

1) All Nations shall, to the best of their ability, actively seek out relevant
information to Regional security
2) Any information directly relating to Canada’s security shall be submitted to
either, the Minister of Defence or an appropriate member of the Defence
Cabinet, or the UN Delegate (in case of UN affairs)
3) If information relates to either an ally of Canada or third party, this is to be
discussed by the Defence Cabinet before submission to the UN Delegate with
proposed courses of action
i) If diplomatic or political solutions are available these should be followed through
to completion or as far as is considered satisfactory (this would primarily be
applied to UN conflicts)
ii) Political/trade embargoes may be sanctioned in order to resolve the situation
without armed conflict if it is deemed a suitable course of action
iii) UN resolutions must still be obeyed with reference to rules of engagement, and
POW's etc.
4) Political/trade embargoes may be placed upon those regions that are aiding
current enemies of Canada as a statement of mal-content (this should only be
implemented if these Regions have only given their support in principle
i) Active support, such as lending of resources (human or physical), shall be
interpreted as an overt act of war and incur the same response as the aggressor
5) In the case of armed conflict, all Nations within Canada’s borders shall be subject
to forfeiting 1/3 of their Nation's defence force under Article 7 of "Nation's
Universal Freedoms"
6) Strategy, tactics, etc., shall be discussed in the first instance by the Defence
Ministry giving additional briefings to Field Agents, other Cabinet members and
Ministers as is necessary to uphold the defence of Regional borders
7) If the UN Delegate or Prime Minister is not within the Region (for reasons
relating to the conflict or involved in diplomatic proceedings, Regional affairs
are to be suspended and emergency Cabinet is to be put in place until their
return. The Cabinet would be headed by the Minister for Regional affairs and
Minister for Foreign Affairs, with the remaining Ministers remaining active within
their respective remit. The exception to this is the Defence Cabinet may act
without the prior consent of the Regional Affairs and Foreign Affairs Minister
whilst engaged in conflict, unless a situation arises whereby the Sovereignty
in addition to the security of Canada is placed in undue danger
8) Upon the Prime Ministers or UN Delegates return, the Emergency Cabinet shall
be disbanded with all rightful roles and responsibilities being returned upon
briefing of the current situation
9) Warfare shall be conducted in the proper manner, respecting both the Canadian
Constitution and UN resolutions and necessary
10) If the conflict is undue or unjust, with reference to the CC/UN resolutions, a
full-scale investigation of the perpetrators shall be undertaken with penalties
being enforced by the Canadian government. Only in cases whereby UN
sanctions are justifiable shall these be implemented
11) Sanctions, embargoes, or armed-forces may be placed upon or within the
aggressor Region/Nation(s), until such a time that the cost of the war is
considered to be exacted
12) The PM/Delegate shall oversee the implementation of any and all political or
diplomatic embargoes or treaties. The Governments Ministers may, if they
choose; involve themselves in this within their own remit

Urrgghhh...
Leaking vital brain fluid...
"Canada, Canada..."
"Akira, Akira..."

Supreme Praetor of Tibrin :blink:

bweezy - February 15, 2004 08:00 PM (GMT)
Since I'm currently hepped up on over the counter medicine, I don't know what to make of this, and will reserve most of my judgment until my head is clearer.

However, I would say that I feel a little uncomfortable speaking of "citizen's rights", as that fall within the soverignty of each nation, and not within my role as PM of the region. I'd like to see what the rest of cabinet thinks about that.


Red Leaf - February 15, 2004 08:08 PM (GMT)
The reference to Citizen's rights is a moot point (kind of), but one that needed to be cleared up before Nation rights and duties relating to Canada's defence. Perhaps it should not have been included - but you live and learn I guess.
I concede that it falls within each Nations own responsibility, and that as PM there would be very little that could be done. It was more of an introduction than anything else. It's difficult to work on the macro without laying some guidelines or understanding the micro. Hope you feel better soon. ^_^

hudson bay - February 15, 2004 09:37 PM (GMT)
Tibrin I think it would be helpful to remind you that a region is a bloc of nations. A region is not a "super" country. As such, other than restricting membership, the region has no say what so ever over the internal affairs of the member nations.

Checkers McDog - February 15, 2004 09:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (bweezy @ Feb 15 2004, 03:00 PM)
However, I would say that I feel a little uncomfortable speaking of "citizen's rights", as that fall within the soverignty of each nation, and not within my role as PM of the region.  I'd like to see what the rest of cabinet thinks about that.

I completely agree, citizen's rights shouldn't be within regional government control

As for the other stuff:
QUOTE
3) If information relates to either an ally of Canada or third party, this is to be discussed by the Defence Cabinet before submission to the UN Delegate with
proposed courses of action

I have no specific problem with this but I don't think it's all that necessary

QUOTE
5) In the case of armed conflict, all Nations within Canada’s borders shall be subject to forfeiting 1/3 of their Nation's defence force under Article 7 of "Nation's
Universal Freedoms"

Is this RP? because if not I'm against it.

QUOTE
7) If the UN Delegate or Prime Minister is not within the Region (for reasons
relating to the conflict or involved in diplomatic proceedings, Regional affairs
are to be suspended and emergency Cabinet is to be put in place until their
return. The Cabinet would be headed by the Minister for Regional affairs and
Minister for Foreign Affairs, with the remaining Ministers remaining active within
their respective remit. The exception to this is the Defence Cabinet may act
without the prior consent of the Regional Affairs and Foreign Affairs Minister
whilst engaged in conflict, unless a situation arises whereby the Sovereignty
in addition to the security of Canada is placed in undue danger

In what scenario would the delegate/PM leave the region?

bweezy - February 16, 2004 05:03 PM (GMT)
There is clearly an RP component to this which we can splice off and put in the RP forums here.

However, there are certainly some ideas here that we can use and work with. I think ultimately we should wait for Boardz to reappear and take a good long look at this, and he can tell us what he thinks, and take it from there.


Red Leaf - February 16, 2004 09:23 PM (GMT)
Cheers for your comments. I'm glad it sparked a debate - that's partly what it was submitted for. The RP components were difficult to iron out and so for ease I was just slack and left them in.
I will now try to answer the concerns that have been raised.

To the esteemed Hudson Bay:
"Tibrin I think it would be helpful to remind you that a region is a bloc of nations... As such, other than restricting membership, the region has no say what so ever over the internal affairs of the member nations."

Of that I am painfully aware and think that this is one of the RP elements mentioned by Bweezy. It would in hindsight, be better left to the Off Site Role Play Forum (if even at all applicable), rather than in the day-to-day government of the Region or the game. My sincerest apolologies if you feel that this was unclear, or poorly explained (as I think it was).

To the right honourable Checkers McDog:
In answer to you first point made (quoting Bweezy) this is entirely my fault - I think the sociologist in me took over. That should have been retracted long before it was posted.
The second point (in relation to 3) you made was more in reference to the Poll undertaken by Boardz about Use of Weapons and the subsequent result - perhaps another OSRPF issue here.
With reference to point 5, I think that could also have been clearer. Role-play, is interpreted by many different people to mean many different things. I doubt any one persons idea/definition will be the same as anyone elses. It was merely a point for outlining a course of action in a Regional emergency and was by no means intended to cause offence, even if indirectly.
(I, probably like yourself, have been RPing a long, long time).
With allusion to your final comment, a PM/Delegate may leave thier region, but once again only in the RP element (such examples could be International Crisis, or Diplomatic Relations).

I'm glad that veteran players of NS like yourselves questioned what was put up as it forced another learning curve. As our venerated PM/Delegate noted, I think that perhaps a clearer disticntion between the RP and systemic was needed.
For that I can only apologise. :unsure:

bweezy - February 16, 2004 09:27 PM (GMT)
No need to appologize - I'm glad you offered this to us. I think there is some useful language that will serve the region well. We will benefit from your hard work.

hudson bay - February 16, 2004 10:20 PM (GMT)
So polite - nicely done. Hope you can spare some time to be an ambassador when the need araises.

Checkers McDog - February 16, 2004 10:33 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Supreme Praetor of Tibrin @ Feb 16 2004, 04:23 PM)
With reference to point 5, I think that could also have been clearer. Role-play, is interpreted by many different people to mean many different things. I doubt any one persons idea/definition will be the same as anyone elses. It was merely a point for outlining a course of action in a Regional emergency and was by no means intended to cause offence, even if indirectly.
(I, probably like yourself, have been RPing a long, long time).


don't worry about, I wasn't offended in any way, but merely didn't think it was a good idea if it weren't meant as roleplay

...speaking of rp, I actually haven't been rping a long time, more like not at all :P

Red Leaf - February 17, 2004 06:23 PM (GMT)
Cheers. I feel almost exonerated. The Nation Tibrin is merely a shadow nation and, as such, an experiment. I will probably move my main nation here in a short while. I have a few other things to clear up (both in RP and game terms), but feel as though Canada is one of the better Regions for becoming involved (other, larger Regions, are morey complex and aready have set protocols. from glancing at recent forum posts, elections etc., it seems to me that Canada is now accelerating). I may *he say's apprehiensively* post addendums to those points that are more RP orientated. I'm glad any misundertandings have been resolved.
In the words of my favourite Manga film...

"Canada, Canada..."
"Akira, Akira..."
:rolleyes:

bweezy - February 17, 2004 06:47 PM (GMT)
Cool. Your knowledge of other regions will be an asset to us.

Red Leaf - February 17, 2004 11:30 PM (GMT)
To the Esteemed Hudson Bay
I would be honoured to do so - but maybe as my main nation (see above).




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