Well, actually, Mulroney-Reagan and Chretien-Clinton we very close (cept I dont think Jean smokes cigars, or does anything else with them for that matter :P )

Up until 3 years ago Canada and US has very few trade problems. It was not until Chretien and his seemingly isolationalist cronies started to alter trade agreements, attempt to break the Free Trade Agreement by raising tarrifs, and start to call American Politicians names in public that things started to get worse.

Although, that being said, I talk to alot of Americans daily in my work, and very few actually think the way alot of the media in Canada is portraying that they do. Few are upset that Chretien was too cowardly to help the US in Iraq. It just so happens that the ones who do are given front page coverage in the Star and the Globe.

The bigger problem is the fact that most of the mainstream TV and print media is largely controled by liberals. Both of the National Daily newspapers are owned by Liberal bag-men. Globe (Thompson) and the Post (Asper who is a former MP and probably Senator anytime soon), the Toronto Star, the biggest circulation in the country, is rabidly anti-American, Socialist, and editorially moronic. And it goes on.

Canada has an image problem in the States, until it changes that (and in truth changes the leadership in Parliment) nothing else will really change.

I'm just curious as to what people think ( or if they even care ) about the relationship between the United States and Canada right now. For as long as I can remember, everyone was always saying how its only a matter of time before we adopt the American dollar and become the next state in the union. Now with Mad Cow Disease, Soft wood lumber disputes, Wheat trade subsidies, America saying the 9/11 high-jackers came from Canada, and Toronto being a SARS hot spot, everyone is saying that the longest undefended border in the world is on the brink of collapse as the U.S. secures all its borders. Do you think Canada is going to be better off, or much worse off, if the current situation continues to detereriate in U.S/Canada relations?

Canadia-American relations have long been rocky. However, the two nations have such extensive economic connections that it would be difficult to cause a permanent break between us.
Economically, Canada, being smaller, is in the weaker position - America could, theoretically, destroy the Canadian economy with a prolonged trade war. But it runs both ways - with Canada as America's largest trading partner, any disruption would cause serious damage to the U.S. economy. Given the already poor state of the American economy, Bush would be ill-advised to start a trade war with Canada.

As someone living South of the border, I must say Americans do not think poorly of Canada. Most of our population is made up of people who do not care. Really, the average Americans are happy living their lives hoping for as little interference from outside sources as possible. The average American knows jack about Canada. At most, they know of Hockey, the CN tower in Toronto, Mounties, and the first few lines of "O Canada."

Politically, we have our conservatives and liberals too. Our conservatives are against Canada, but these are the same guys who changed French fries to freedom fries. Our liberals of course love Canada, and some have already started mapping the quickest route to Canada, just in case.

I don't think that we have an image problem really. I think the media in Canada is too worried about what the Americans think it makes good copy if there is nothing else going on. The U.S. is run by the almighty dollar and as long as we are in number one or even number two spot for trade, the U.S. will put up with the little squabbles with its northerly partners.

Our history with the U.S. has always been a little edgy ( Remember 1812?) The free trade issue was a major election topic when Laurier was running for election in 1891 ( he lost in 1911 on the issue of unrestricted reciprocity with the U.S.)

I think Canadians see so many American messeges in the media that we forget that we have always been trying to separate ourselves yet be "freindly" with the giant to the south.

There has always been disputes of some kind in every generation from land disputes (Alaska Border dispute 1903 Northwest passage in the 1980's) trade disputes and just a general dislike from time to time. Grant and Macdonald didn't have time for each other ( Grant thought that he would be President of Canada soon) as well as Trudeau and .. well pretty much all the Presidents during his time.

I think Canadians spend too much time worrying about what they think to the south. The relationship will continue to be one like any other 200 year plus room-mates. Sometime we are going to go for beers and sometime we will be sure that they are out to make our lives miserable (and vice versa).

regards

heywood

your right in the sense, that maybe we do obsess about it a little too much sometimes, but the fact of the matter is, if the US ever was so inclined, they could militarily swallow Canada whole, and that is not a good thought for any country. Pierre said it best about our relationship when he said;

"Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."

Minneapolis is full of Canadians, & the Immigration & Naturalization Service has been getting bizarre. My boss has been in this country for more than a decade, got her degree from the University of Minnesota, etc - but she has to check in with the INS every 6 weeks or lose her right to work here for noncompliance.

Also, if your dollar keeps getting stronger, that will change the relationship a lot - less incentive for Canadians to work & sell stuff here, less incentive for Americans to buy Canadian. (the newspaper I work at buys Canadian paper despite a local group boycotting, because it's cheaper due mostly to the exchange rate). It probably wouldn't slow down trade, but it will rearrange things.

I also wonder, if your High Court rules against Monsanto, if there won't be a big tariff war. Maybe being from the Midwest I overestimate the power of the Big 3 ag companies, but it does seem like Monsanto, Cargill, & ADM have a lot of influence.

On a national level, yes relations are strained. As has already been recounted in this thread, this is nothing new. Any of the Americans I have spoken to (often in business, but I also have some good friends south of the border), are not upset with Canada over our not sending troops to Iraq. They know that our politicians have let our military rot for far to long and we just do not have the resources to send. What concerns them about this more than our assisting them overseas, is our inability to maintain soveriegnty over our own borders, our far to lenient immigration polices and the ease with which any groups or individuals that may pose a threat to the U.S.A. can cross from our country into the lower 48.

A trade war between our nations would severely damage both economies. Canada's becauase America is our largest market. America's becuase of the huge amount of raw materials shipped from Canada south of the border for processing. Finding replacement sources for these raw materials would be costly to the U.S., if it could be done at all. Canada would never fully replace the market created by our U.S. exports.

As for the notion that America could easily take over Canada militarily, that is true. Until you consider what it would do to America politically on the world stage. Such an act would be viewed by the likes of Britain, France, Russia (and pretty much every other country in the world) in the same light as Saddam invading Kuwait was (or Hitler invading Poland). As mighty as America's military is, it could not stand alone against the world indefinately.

If events continue to unfold as they are currently, America will have no choice but to close it's border with Canada. The only way this can be prevented is for Canada to be able to assure our American bretheren that we can police our other borders, and that the side door into the U.S.A. to the north is locked. While it is all well and good to go hunt down the bad guys overseas, what has to be most important here is the steps that are taken here at home to ensure that the events of 9/11/2001 are NEVER repeated on North American soil. I fear that in the 22 months since that tragic day, politicans on both sides fo the border have lost sight of this primary objective. Perhaps that is what scares me most about the strain in relations between our nations, that it will mean that the co-operation needed between our nations to ensure the safety of us all is being sacrificed for political grand standing and showmanship.

In all fairness to Canada, though, the U.S. government is still being rather lax about security. Bush's budget cut mania has starved homeland security budgets, and our port security programs received about a tenth of the money they needed. Our defence budget is mostly for traditional heavy weapons systems, rather than the more flexible units suited to a long-term war on guerrilla or terrorist units.

I would not be worried about the US invading Canada anytime soon. There are five countries that are impossible to invade. Russia, Canada, China, USA, and Austrailia. If anyone was dumb enough to invade these countries, their supply lines would become too long to support the front lines. Gurrial warfare would beat back the invaders.

Also Canada is no where near the top of Bush's list of countries to invade.

Sryia, Iran, Africa, Pakistan, Turkey, Indonesia, the rest of OPEC, France . . .

So it will be a few years before we get around to Canada. :D ;)

Hmmm...didn't know we had an ocean between Canada and the USA.

thaaaaat's what it MUST be...it's ALL a LIBERAL conspiracy...forget that they stole our salmon on the west coast, forget they slap a 30% tarriff on our softwood lumber while subsidizing their own industry, forget about 1 mad cow, forget about whenever they feel they aren't number 1 it MUST be time to just TAKE whatever they want.

the americans are trade and economic bullies. that dipshit mulroney is the one who got us into this latest mess.

why do we care what the americans think? screw them. i don't care if they like us or if they hate us and if they don't watch out we'll triple the cost of oil and gas we sell to them cheaper than we sell to ourselves and make fresh water taxes to them to even things out a bit and if they don't like that they can start dealing with free trade in the fair manner we've been following for years...we play by the rules and they break them...enough...tax the oile and gas an dwater and they'll straighten out in a hurry..

and for god sake shut the hell up about politicians..it's all about money you divots

If you think that will straighten us Americans out, GO FOR IT!!

Save America before we destory ourselves completely!

I have a question...when did Canada ban leaded gasoline? I have a theory that the difference between US & European leadership might be neurological damage to people whose early childhood was before the US banned leaded gasoline & lead paint.

1970's I think. Not too sure, really.

Canada has best not push the current US administration on any issue, as the Bush Administration really does not consider Canada as anything other than another Mexico. This is sadly unfortunate, but the next administration will be in office soon, but not soon enough.

on ap ersonal level I see at least SOME drifting as a good thing- on social issues to that matter. I loved ALL of chretien's final couple of socially progressive tabled motions- legally reckodnized gay marriage, legalized pot, etc., because it showed taht we as a nation are not afraid to do our own thing and consider the will of the people over the will of our big neighbor to the south.

but, I do feel that economically we need to either kill NAFTA or stop teh infighting. there is no way I will support a FT agreement of the americas as long as such actions as softwood lumber tariffs are imposed just because an industry cannot compete properly with a superior industry. its silly!

however, Canada still nees and economy, and an economical identity- that means more well run crown corporations or canadian-based corporations, and at least a fallback protection for some of our vital (farm) industries.

do I like NAFTA? no. why? because NAFTA just puts way too much strain on a nation's econom, esp. in areas that do need government protection, which would be forced to compete with commercial producers with more lax standards.

Personally I like Free Trade, and would support a global free trade zone. However, it is the terms of the agreements that are key. For instance, certain lax standards should be grounds for an "unfair advantage" just as subsidies are viewed as an unfair advantage.

In essence, we all benefit from free trade AND fair trade. Cheaper goods flowing across borders, but with consistent standards throughout the free trade zone.

agreed bweezy., but unless all parties comply...well, I'd rather just see fair trade