View Full Version: Dreampt Cogito

Final Fantasy Forum > The Symposium > Dreampt Cogito


Title: Dreampt Cogito


Aztec Triogal - December 22, 2007 07:52 AM (GMT)
If your not familiar with the argument, here's the three sentence breakdown:

"I think, therefore I am" - Rene' Descartes. Descartes, a man who relied on mathematics and science for his philosophical conclusions, tried to prove he existed by determining the extent to which his senses affected his perception of reality. He concluded that his perceptions could be entirely misleading (The Matrix) and he only could guarantee that he existed because he knew that he was capable of thought.

Kidro's perspective thread, coupled with that anime "The Place Promised in our Early Days", had me thinking about this subject. If the only true basis for our existence is our thought, and our perceptions may or may not misleading, does that make dreams just as real as "reality"?

In other words, if you cannot guarantee that the object you see and feel before you is perceived in the same way I see and feel it, then does that truly mean that the only thing you can rely on is your thoughts? Does it mean that your body then is not truly part of the "equation" because its existence altogether is not concrete? And if the physical does not matter at all, than does a dream, which is only perceived although is not "real" as we know it, more real than we may think?

Vaskal - December 22, 2007 03:03 PM (GMT)
Many people take that argument to an unwarranted extreme. The concept of perception versus reality doesn't make reality any less real. For instance, we all know we have bodies. How our bodies look, feel, smell (ew), etc. may be perceived differently by individuals, but we don't argue that it doesn't exist.

The main reason we can perceive things differently is that nobody gets to perceive anything in its entirety. The colors we see are only a small part of the full spectrum of radiation (radio waves, micro waves, ultra violet and infra red exist all around us, but we don't see them). Each person sees the apparent color of an object slightly differently because our eyes and brains are all slightly different. That doesn't change what radiation is being reflected or absorbed by an object, it merely makes it so different people are able to see different portions of what is being reflected. The color of the object doesn't change, just what the person can see of it. A blind person won't argue that a table doesn't exist because they can't see what color it is. In other words, there is one reality, but we each sense different portions of it.

As far as what dreams are, nobody is quite certain. They are thought, and thought is an aspect of reality that our limited minds haven't quite defined yet, even though it takes thought to define anything. It's like so much in our lives; we can use it without understanding it.

kingtard - January 8, 2008 08:18 PM (GMT)
I have thought this as well, what is reality? Well, idk, hell my whole life could be one giant lie, and everyone I know could just be an illusion. what Im trying to get at, is knowone can prove they exist, they can only assume. And as for dreams, I kinda have a really weird picture on them, I kinda got the idea from assassins creed. What if what we dream, is just the memory of our annsesters, but your in their places. I mean I know there might be some pretty crazy dreams out there, that you mind has put together. But some of you dreams might actually be memories of the fallen.




Hosted for free by InvisionFree