An S2 with cycle wings up on eBay. Start price of £500 is a bit optimistic considering the old engine's been binned and he's giving you a square peg to fit in the round hole that's left. Not too sure about that 'air box' on the bonnet, either.

P

:(

For £250 it would be a reasonable enough buy considering the amount of work and expense needed to get it into a reasonable condition for the road. £500 for a basket case is really asking a tad too much.

Perhaps a Phaeton price guide is in order. - for X-flow - Pinto powered car.

CONDITION F

Any car/chassis-body unit correctly registered has got to be worth £150 no matter what the condition as long as its not a box of parts. - engine may be in or out or not at all but it should be a rolling chassis with most parts possible to re-condition.
Suggest up to 50% on this price for the more desirable models.

CONDITION C

A rolling chassis with engine and generally all the bits in place and correctly registered - may not be a runner but should be able to reach that stage with a little work should contain 90% of the parts required to meet an MOT. £400
Up to 50% on this price for the more desirable models.

CONDITION B

A car with an MOT correctly registered but requiring cosmetic work and upgrading to bring the car up to scratch - expect some glass fibre crazing worn tires and tired but usable mechanical condition. £750 + the 50% on this for a desirable model

CONDITION A

A correctly registered tax and MOT'd example complete with wet weather gear and in a good overall and cosmetically acceptable condition - good overall mechanical condition and complete in every aspect. £1200 + 50%....

SHOW

A suberb example generally with no expense spared may have new hi-performance engine and expensive options such as wheels/tyres - optional hard top etc. body work in as new condition - interior to very high standard with expensive seats or bespoke. £3500 +50%

Addendum

What constitutes a desirable option.

In general B Types and S1 models are higher sort after due to the nature of the 5 link suspension system - triumph double wishbone front suspension and overall looks and the more performance orientated engine positioning and large engine bay.

Malaga rear ends are not to everyones taste but the specification of the car can make up for this.

S2 are less desirable than B-Types and S1 as the majority have leaf rear spring suspension systems but the bonus of the better looking rear - consider a 5 link S2 to be as an S1

S3/4 All glass fibre tubs and generally heavier than the earlier models and the engine positioned further forward in the chassis to give greater malechickenpit space - looks spoilt by the ungainly bumpers and the side body mouldings. leaf spring back ends and escort fronts can give strange handling as they get worn.
Also prone to offroader arch gaps and on the whole require more work.


Engines

The nature of a Dutton as a kit means any engine from a precrossflow 1000 cc Ford / 998 A series to a monster 350 ci Chevy V8 can be accomodated depending on the builders expertise - the engine can be twice the value of the car or more and this must be taken into account as should the condition of the engine.

The above price guide is based around a typical 1600 X-flow/ 2.0L Pinto car. because the engine can easily be more than the price of the car.

A V8 will always be considered a desirable option as would the Ford Essex V6 -any engine which is also easily available as a performance upgrade will also be more desirable - such as the 1600 - X-flow. Engines like the Hillman Hunter GLS Holbay and the MGB/Marina 1800 are not considered special. Zetec, Vauhall XE, Cosworth, Toyota, Bike engines are considered special are are high performance X-Flows and good muti-cylinder options.

So as an example.

My tatty but complete S1 V8 would now come in condition B/A between £750 and £1200 and with the extra of the V8 - full wet weather gear and optional hardtop and good mechanical spec with adjustable coilovers braided hoses 7x13 alloys with good tyres etc etc. - would boost this to around £1850.

My S3 which is in bits and just a rolling chassis although the glass fibre is in good nick and in BRG - would be condition F/C and be worth about £200 - 400

Seans S2 - which is a nice tidy fairly standard S2 with a nice X-Flow twin 40's etc. BRG body full weather gear etc. comes in the guide at condition A at £1200 to £1500 and I am sure he would agree that thats about right.

However - the prices of Duttons is on the rise for one reason or another - I the states I have seen cars valued at what we would consider totally unrealistic $8,000 - $10,000 :o - wether this trend is because of SVA who knows.

Pricing up of Duttons is an almost impossible task perhaps this guide will be used to get a better idea for folk

Cheers

Andrew

Oh and before any off you decide to offer me £1800 for my S1 - dream on its not for sale. :P

Burger! I'll have to find something else to spend my redundancy money on...


P.S. I liked 'malechickenpit' :)

I won't make any promises but I'll keep an eye on EBay and make a note of the prices that different cars go for. I'll use Andy's condition guide and try to objectively rate each car based on the information given. Might turn it into a magazine article if I get enough results...


Wish me luck
P

:huh:

Well what do I know about Dutton values...... I just bought a copy of Practical Classics and the valuations they have are well above mine. I guess they must know something I dont.

Dont have the mag to hand but I think it was 4000 Condition 1 2500 condition 2 and 1500 condition 3 - with all the catagories for engine etc Var Var Var Var - with that criteria how on earth can you make any sort of rational valuation - Simple you cant. :angry:

Still as the valuations was only for Phaetons and I happen to own Three what can i say - all worth a total of around £8000 - oh boy time to sell up and buy that Caterham. :D Thank you PC.

You making it Stafford Phil?

Cheers

Andrew

Sadly won't be at Stafford :(

Looks like I might not even make Detling. Forgot the sister-in-law was coming to visit that weekend. Might be able to persuade the girls that they would like a day's shopping at lakeside while I bring the nephew to Detling :P

Will be checking progress on the rebuild at the weekend, hope to get an idea of when I might be back on the road. I need to know how much time I have to get the engine run in ready for Llandow in July :D

Its back :blink:

The dodgy S2 is up for sale yet again - and the price is going up :lol:

Obviosly been reading practical classics.

I thought it sold last time out?

So a un engined S2 with mawled body work for a grand - whatever next...

Andrew

In my spreadsheet I put it down as an optimistic condition C on your scale and gave it a value of £400. It was bid up to £520 but the reserve wasn't met. I reckon he must have the reserve set somewhere around the £750 mark.

There's nowt so queer as folk :unsure:

Andy
Better revalue your B types, the earlier version was fitted with triumph rear suspension which comprised of a leaf arrangement across the car with live axles.
All very nice until you try to get the handbrake to work effectivally. not nice when hill starting and the engine stalls and there are vehicles behind.

:blink:

Uh!

No idea what point/contribution/critisism are you trying to make but .

The price GUIDE I ventured is for a X-flow/Pinto Phaeton. I then waffle a bit but tried not to get too involved in rare early B-type models you describe - as they they are too few and far between and specialist collectors cars as far as I am concerned.

As for Spitfire/Herald transverse leaf back ends used on the early B I had a spitfire and also worked on plenty and never had any problems with the handbrake as the design went on hundreds of thousands of cars it must have been sound - like most things Dutton it would be the builder if I had to hazard a guess. As I have said before (and you have responded) I dont think the cars are great from and engineering perspective and could have been "in my view" better - however its in the builders hands to improve them and as for value for money - well we come full circle to my other post where I think they are the best value cars in the world.



Andrew