he he, okay ppl, this is a topic I feel very strongly about, so do you believe he was real? or better yet, have you read any good books about King Arthur (not Merlin), namely 'Le Morte de Arthur' by Sir Thomas Malory? its good ^_^

No offence if its not true, but I seem to remember an Arthurian character by the name of Gwydion, or maybe its just me ^_^ ...anyway thanks for the vote of confidence!, and when you get the chance or the book to cross your path, read it. Sir Thomas Malory illustrates Arthur's wonderous life and tragic dimise very well indeed.

But as to the life of Arthur being *made* of many lives...well I don't want to start ranting just yet, so come on, keep posting! :D

If Arthur existed, I doubt he was the larger-than-life figure he's normally painted as. I don't believe for a second he had a legendary sword at his disposal, or that the Lady of the Lake existed. I don't believe in Merlin either. Chances are that Arthur was merely an exceptional ruler at the time, and the stories of his exploits gradually were exaggerated until he became a figure of mythic proportions.


See? I can be rational if I want.

Gwen there was a character called Gwynnia, though she was before Arthur when Merlin was a child. Gwynnia was a dragon.

I'm guessing you get you name from Uther Pendragon, Arthur's psudo-father. Or directly from Arther himself. The Gwen I'm not sure about...

She's taken that from Gwenhwyfar [That's a pain to spell, ain't it?]/Guinivere, I believe..

Yes, I have taken my name form Gwenivere, Guinevere (etc.) there are many spellings, I chose the more american way of spelling it so that it didn't look like Guin_Pendragon, lol...anyway, the Pendragon (literally meaning War Lord) I did use from Arthur...As to Anrui, I get what you are saying about Arthur's exploites being exadgerated, but honestly, I do believe there was a sword that was forged differently so it made it supperior to all of that time...I do believe in Merlin, though not as he would have been a *wizard*, my observation would be that he was a member of the druids that attempted to have magical powers, *no offence to those who like Merlin*...the Lady of the Lake would most definetly have been made up to increase the fictional value.

However, the reasons that this story the way it is told today *fictionaly* would be owed to the christian monks who took in possibly all documentation that may have been officially reported on King Arthur and in an attempt to cause everyone not to believe in Arthur made a crack load of s--t about all of this pagan (Lady of the Lake, Merlin, Morgan Le Fay) influence and how it is bad...sometimes I wish they could have left things alone...anyway I think I'm done ranting (for now...)

Some scholars believe that there might be some truth behind the legend of Excalibur just as they believe there might be some truth behind Arthur. I read that it had been proposed that excalibur may have been made using forging methods superior to those used commonly in europe during the Arthurian time period. It was proposed that the sword may have been made using a process similar to the type used by the japanese. Maybe Gwen_Pendragon can back me up if she's heard this before. ^_^

As for the truth behind Merlin, he was thought to have possibly been a druid, as Gwen said, that learned the art of herbalism from the Celts native to Ireland, which some people believe might have been the island referred to as Avalon.

Thanks Gwydion, I have heard that Excalibur (caliburn, etc) may have been forged like the ones that were used in Medieval Japan...

You hit it right on the nose (owww) with Merlin, I do believe that he was a member of the (Celtic) druids who indeed are native to Ireland...

Go Gwydion! ^_^

Hmm seems everyone beat me to some of the points I was going to make.
The Aurthurian legends are believed to come from ancient celtic stories passed down throughout the lands they travelled.

The Round Table idea was revolutionary enough for a king of the time to make it into the tales of celtic travelers wether or not he had the sword. Although I do think a sword like it could have been made.

A wizard s a differant thing now then it was back then. While now we think of them as someone who would launch fireballs about and slay dragons with bolts of lightening from their eyes or something. Back then they were healers, scholars and advisors. He was most likely a druid and got his reputation as a wizard from his use of herbalism or from preparing certain medicines. Although I think it would be pretty awesome if there is an herbal preperation that lets you launch fireballs at what you hink is a dragon without getting a swarm of police with pepper spray on you. :nwink:

Alright! Woohoo!

This is going great...There are acctually people who share my same beliefs :woot:
and I haven't even ranted yet... ^_^

Dakota, your Merlin veiws I would say are conpletely accurate but that is my own opinion :P

Wow, didn't know so many ppl believe in him...For argumentative reasons I hoped some ppl didn't believe, or had way off opinions...oh well... ^_^

ooo, no counters... :huh:

YES! my turn!

okay...*deep breath*...lets start with people:

Gwenivere...she was the wife of Arthur, and some scolars say that she was based on more than one person, this I do not believe. I do however believe that she did have an affair, but she was not able to bear any children, which left the kingdom in an uproar after Arthur died...the treacherous knight that she fell in love with...

Lancelot du Lak...Lancelot was said to be the best knight of his time, cousin to Sir Ban and Sir Bors, he came from France in hopes of serving Arthur, that of which he did little of...he instead headed up the queen's guard and set himself as her *personal* guardian...the actions of this knight are irripairable, and will live on in our memory's for decades...mother/foster parent was said to have been the Lady of the Lake...the one true maiden that loved him...

Elaine the princess...Morgan Le Fay was said to have enchanted Lancelot to make him think that Elaine was Gwenivere...which he bedded Elaine and she bore Galahad, the pure...but she is connected to...

Morgan Le Fay...how Elaine was said to have begged for the love of Lancelot...Morgan (Morgana, etc.) was said to have been from an evil witch, to the very decendant of the Lady of the Lake, depending on which book you read...Married to King Lot...Is said to have had a certain relationship with the faeries (Fay, etc), hence the name...however I believe that because she was the second daughter to Arthur's mother, Igraine, that she got the raw end of the deal...I also believe that she studdied magic with the great driuds, the same as...

Merlin...one of the most contrivercial characters...and said to be a illigitamite son of the Pendragon line, mothered by a pendragon,...he was said to have cast the mists over Igraine's eyes causing her to lay with Uther, Arthur's father...I do believe how ever that Merlin did have training in herbs, and other thing concidered magickal in that time period, I also believe that he was trapped in a cave, naer the Isle Avalon by...

Nemue...whom of which Merlin fell in love with...in some accouts she was said to have been the Lady of the Lake (pagan in belief)...to being one of the very maidens who held the grail (christian in belief)...I don't believe the latter nor the earlier but I still think she existed as a link between Arthur and...

The Lady of the Lake...Vivian...said to live on Avalon, and to have given Arthur the magickal sword Excalibur...I do believe there was a female advisor to the throne, but I don't believe she lived in a/the Lake...

Places:
Avalon-Legendary Isle of the pagan faith, said to have been where the Lady of the Lake resided, Arthur is said to have gone there upon his death, escorted by the three queens...his wife and his two sisters...

Camelot-Arthur's legendary residence...is said to have been the place/location of the large Round Table

Cameron-Gwenivere's inheritance, across the Severn waters from Camelot

Glattonsbury-the church that the christians built at the turn of the religions...said to have been located near or perhaps on the Isle of Avalon

Objects:

Ecalibur (caliburn, etc)-okay, this was not the sword that Arthur pulled out of the stone, that one broke in battle, however I do believe that it was made using superior tecniques to what the english had previously been using...Lady of the Lake is said to have given this Arthur in hopes that he would keep to the pagan religion...

Round table-I do believe that one existed, but that it sat only about 150 knight, I have heard versions which speak of one that would seat 2000 kights...

Holy Grail-a christian addidtive, I do not believe one existed...

Siege Perilous-A seat at the Round table, which the proficy was filled by Sir Percivle...

More people...

Mordred...I hate him and Galahad, nothing else to it...said to have killed his father, Arthur, who was said to have been tricked by Morgan Le Fay, in to sleeping with her...In Arthur's last battle, he fought Mordred and both were killed...

Amir...litteraly translates into Love...said to have only live until around seven years old, Arthur's only ligitamite heir...was killed by the saxons shortly before Gwenivere's trechery to the king was found...

LAST BUT NOT LEAST!

King Arthur Pendragon...High King of all Britons...was not Roman...was not Greek...was not French...etc...but was in his own right, British...Arthur was a great king...he kept the Saxons on the shore from invading, and kept peace through out his rein...all of the above tells just how much the christian monks jacked everything up, causing chaos and disbelief...


Now the hard part...Why do I feel such an attachment to the legend?...um...really this is hard...I don't really know exactly why, but I do feel to a maximum extent that I know so much about the legend *cough*, that I feel the need to do it justice...so honestly that's why I think I have such and attachment to the legend...I think...
*deep breath* okay..thats it...for now...I'll post again if I think of some thing... enjoy! ^_^

he he, so did you take it all in yet?...lol...anyway, if you see someithing missing, which some may, feel free to post as an addition!...lol

Come on...I can't have covered the *whole* legend... ^_^
Post!

lol I have read Mists of Avalon...I would also recomend picking up the acctually version, but thats just me...I have the one circa 1149 (orininal one i have fifth or so edition)

The reason I hate Galahad is not because he was flawless, but because he was *pure* enough to be used by and for the christian plot of the holy grail...Yes he may have been a great knight indeed but he was also made out to be too pure, that even the christian monks who revised/ruined the legend, killed him in the end by his seeing of the holy grail...If you like him, all the power to you but I don't...Hope this was a valid reason...I just don't see how anyone could possibly be that pure, as to be accepted by the christians at the turn of the religions...

Anyway, thanks for the responce Gwydion...and yes, lol, it took me nearly 90 minutes to write the post as it is...but to cover the whole legend...wow...yet at the same time, I look forward to it lol some time in the future, of course....

hmm...not so competitive veiws...interesting... ^_^

Competitive? Ok, I say Arthur was a pot smoker, and his dealer was Merlin, sho got the poor man started! Any chance this COULD be the truth?

:P Not like that...oh well...

Well, if I were high (on life), I could see myself casting magic just like Merlin. LoL

sorry I've been gone for a while, but I'm backa nd ready to argue, lol ^_^

or not... :unsure:

Having been a long time student of these things and the such, I would also agree that most of the theories here posted are widely accepted and highly possible. I once had the privilage of studying under an art teacher who was also an archeologist that took great interest in such things and was well versed in them and I believe she would agree with you. The question I pose is this:The truth is in the eye of the beholder, so does the truth matter more?or your beliefs? For that matter are our views affected by the truth, or the truth affected by our views? Food for thaught.

Ah, the old which came first?, question (j/k)...yes, it appears that you have been very privileged...I was fortunate to have a teacher of mine (latin in middle school) encourage me to read about the Arthurian legend, and sence then I have learned all that has been available to me and I believe I have found my version of the truth, behind the myth...not saying that everyone must believe me, no that is for you to find on your own...

OMFG Merlin is high...

Did you guys know I taught Arthur how to dance?

:woot: :woot: :woot: WATCH US GO!!!!!!!!!! :woot: :woot: :woot:

That's not fair, I never had the chance to take Latin. Man the school systems here suck. Glad I'm through with those.

If you ever get a chance to take Latin, be it in High school or college, etc., I highly recomend it...and honestly it helps with other languages, since it is the basis of most languages (esp. English, Spanish, and French) so if you ever get a chance to take it, do, because it is a wonderful language...

I have spent the last half hour or so reading over your conversation on the topic, as Arthurian legends are rather facinating.

I would like to make a few comments though.
As to the entire spiel about determining the existance of the excalibur.
I would point out that the actual sword wasn't all that exceptionally extraordinary. If it was, then why would it have broken so easily under the fury of the Green Knight's blows? Further, the excalibur could just as easily been a simple sword, seeing as itself was not a magical item in the Arthurian tales. It was simply the sword wielded by Arthur. The onyl part which is argueable is the idea that he was given it by the lady of the lake, who may or may not have existed. An idea may be that the lady of the lake was not some sort of mystical woman who did reside in a lake, but perhaps some sort of a hermit who just happened to give Arthur the sword. I will admit that it is a stretch, but it is much more believeable.

On another note, the Holy Grail probably did not exist, but odds are, it may have been myth at that time as well, so consequently, Arthur may still have led a search for it.

*cough* I think your getting the two swords mixed up...the only sword that Arthur was ever had said to have broken is the one he pulled out of the stone (NOT EXCALIBUR) *cough* Check your refrinces then let me know if it says that...the book or website, etc...k? ^_^