COLD ROCKS HOLD (aka STONEDOGS)



It was messages like this that made most of us leave. The aparent lack of modding continues. It seems that some of the current posters are seeing things the same way we did. Funny to see how many lurker/non-posters there are there.


So here's the question. What if we all returned under a pact that all anti-religious or other stupid flaming would be met with cold indifference. I have read it a lot lately and have come to the conclusion that the people posting crap are terribly lost and will NEVER post anything respectable concerning religion. So there is no point in arguing. Therefore, we just post responses that show that we are not going to argue with idiots that have already made up their minds to hate our religious beliefs. Kill em with kindness and indifference thats what I say.




Why am I saying this?

Because RJ has written new WOT material and I want to talk about it at the board that I used to love, but I feel that I cannot in good conscience unless I am willing to go back and post regularly. My last post ever on the board was in Ghost's goodbye thread and it wasn't very nice. Ever since then I have avoided posting as a principle. To post only for WOT discussion feels too much like "I don't post much because I hate you all". I, also, would want to have all of my bestest friends there to make it the board it used to be.


Do you guys think it is possible or do I need to pick up the can and start grabbing worms?

I've got like 4 or 5 post in the last 6 months there. That's pretty few. I could go on and on and on with a lot of reasons why I persoanly feel that Mat's idea is a bad one, but that is just my opinion. Anyone that enjoys posting on any particular baord should feel free to do so.

All I will say is that the person who is one of the main culprits for alot of ...unfortunate things...going on there has a very personal relationship with the two people that run that baord, makes it hard for any sort of nonbiased enforcement of any sort of standards. But, I don't want to go any further.

Mat: One thing. You are a friend, so if you want to go back and start posting there regularly again, I'll hang there with you.

Thanks!!


I have one issue with your post: b-o-a-r-d

That should make Oorla happy ;)

it's as bad as CFC. maybe I should go there and preach Gristianity just to piss people off :mwaha:

edit: for those who have no idea what I'm talking about http://www.gristianity.net

Moderated fora are for the weak :mischief:

I have a problem with joining a board with an agenda in mind...

well...other than a spamming agenda that is :mischief:

Plus, there is way too much bad blood between me and a lot of members over there now. I think my presence will make things worse :s

Well, I tried posting there for a few days again a couple-three weeks ago, and it I quickly lost interest, 'cause I didn't really have anything in common with them anymore. I suppose I could try again, but I don't guarantee I'll stick it out for very long.

That said, I liked Ghost's spelling of baord. It's kinda nifty, like Thred. :D

I came to despise that board. That's why I cannot bring myself to post there. Too many egos and too many jerks.

The votes seem to be in in this thred about about baord. ;P

I kinda figured this would be the response.

First, Merin, it isn't an agenda; it's a pact to ignore and patronize the few on the board that normally piss you off.

Second, the reason I would want to post again is that there are still some people over there that I liked that aren't over here.

Third, I feel that the moment SD left, the board was stolen away from us. This sickens me. Good people over there quit doing any posting yet lurk there all the time. Why? They hope that some day the board will be what it used to be. Fun. I can remember a day when I didn't know anyone that posted in the HB because they left it all there. With the removal of the Mods the board has become a free for all. I am just trying to think of a way to win the board back.



With all of that in mind I wouldn't dream of asking anyone to post that didn't want to. I just wanted to see if you all missed the board and wanted to try again. If so I wanted us all to prepare ourselves and act above the childish antics of the morons over there. That being said it is obvious that none of you want to return. Therefore, I withdraw this post as the late night silliness that it was. I hope I haven't annoyed anyone with it.

:)

It's not that we don't want to post on the board, we do. Just the board that we joined in the first place. Even with our return and attempts to put things on the back corner, it will never be that board.

I miss people over there, too. A couple pop up over here...Rhuarc came once and Drav looks over this board...doesn't post though...I wish more people from there would come here but I'm not overly jazzed to go over there and come under attack again.

The board is Vicki's and she has the right to turn it into anything she wants to turn it into. And if that's a religion bashing, Bron domineering board then that it is they way it is.

Also, if you want Mat, you can post your WOT related stuff here :). Quite a few people who did not come from SD's have read those books.

I used to love that board. There are a number of people over there that were fun to talk to. However, unless the few that ruined/are ruining it either leave or change their behavior, I won't go back, though I'd like to.

I bopped back over there again today. Couldn't find anything I wanted to post on. Found severel things that put my back up. May keep trying.

I miss that board. I still go there. but that is only to post about the the new New Spring (bought and read in 2 days, good book) Even the religous crap is getting to me. I knoticed even Ace posts slowed dramatically there. (I use his name because he was an all-time spammer). I've been there for 1 and a half years. Like Mat said the moment SD left and handed it to Vicki it died. I still say it should have been handed to some one who's been there for more than a year.

Vicki and Bron are a couple from what I remember. So he is allowed to spam. And she has become a dictator. Deleting posts that has misspellings or using u instead of you, stupid things like that. because she can't read it right.

not that I'm condoning censorship, but those people who use too many of those net abbreviations can be annoying as all hell :blink:

[gossip]Vicki and Bron had a fling when she came to visit him in NY...and then for awhile they did the kissy stuff via the internet...but he's mentioned 2 different girls that he's been with since then that I know of.

But that's when I left...so I don't know how it is now.[/gossip]

But that's not the issue here :s

The board is Vicki's, if she wants to she can delete anything related to WOT and instead devote the board to how cute her left foot is.

Also, when it was SD's...SD was never there. What made the board great was the mixture of people and the well-balanced mods. When the mods began leaving to pursue their RLs the balance started to...um...unbalance itself. SD did not give the word quick enough to balance things out again. And the remaining mods did not truly mix it up in the HB. Like Case. The HB is like poison :s. Whenever anything spills out of the HB and into the rest of the board, that part of the board dies.

Anyway, the short of it is...the balance of the board shifted. People moved on or changed or something and the board turned into something new. It's no crime that we left, the board was no longer fit for us. It's a different board.

B - That's a very good - and very accurate - synopsis and summary of the state of affairs there.

Just quickly, my association with SD's board has been for over 4 years O I can't entierely give it up but I pretty much correspond wiht the people I like at my board, this board and Ghosts......

I found a really friendly ASOIAF board too, The Court of House Darkfinger, which is good as well, so that keeps me busy enough......

Having said that I agree with most of the above comments, CRH is just no that great anymore

Gee Nick, I love you too ;)

Be Silent Fools! That is Lord Acetimus of House Ace! :evil:

Mat,

Come on over and lets have a good debate, you choose the topic. Just don’t argue like a moron and you will be fine. I don’t see what the big deal is. Greg said something that was patently stupid and then Moridin blew it out of proportion, something for which have all made up for afterwards, off the board.

As for Vicki’s editing of posts and being a “dictator.” Well, typing posts like this: "I think U R wrg ‘cuse U dnt C wut I wrte bfor" is patently retarded and impossible to read, and I think such posts should be edited for content. And she does not delete posts like this she edits them, or else threatens the posters who post in such a manner with deletion if they don’t post like normal human beings, something which the person who was doing this most recently, Jasin, took to heart and started writing his posts in complete words and sentences. How is this a bad thing?

As for my relationships with people on that board. Well, yeah. I am obviously very close to Vicki, that does not mean that she does not come down on me like a pile of bricks when I am out of line. Case in point:

That also does not cover the amount of times Rhuarc calls me up on the phone and tells me to edit or change something that I wrote.

The thing is that the board has a far more permissive vision of freedom of expression and the board is fairly self regulating in that respect. There is real diversity on that board. And yes, sure, I am loud, I am obnoxious and I write a lot, as Merin called it a while back, “Legal BS POO POO.” But in the end of the day I can make a rational argument and back it up with something. So can a great many people who regularly rip into me or agree with me. The point is this, people are capable of having good debates there. Does everyone agree? No. That is not the point. We argue, we yell, we debate, and we have a good time. Sometimes it gets nasty, and then we get on AIM and laugh about it, or call one another on the phone and talk about things not having anything to do with the board.

The thing is this, people don’t let myopic crap slide there, from anyone, even if they fall within their political or socio-cultural affiliation. Here is an example of Ruho, an ultra Fundy ripping into a kid who is making Christianity look bad:

People are unapologetic about what they believe and why, which is wonderful I think. Does this lead to conflict? Sure it does, but it also leads to honest discussion. From the most conservative to the most liberal, everyone has a voice and everyone is willing to use it, freely.

But what gets me, is where you lot get off discussing peoples personal lives? Lack of your own?

Chris,

You have been back now for a few days and every one of your posts was insightful and right on point. You have impressed not only me but pretty much everyone else on the board with your clarity of argument and rationale. I wanted to see if you were being for real, so I came to see where you hang out…You must be really bitter, letting that kind of filth that you wrote, out in the open.

The expression ”Too good to be true.” comes to mind. And I was so eager to think well of you... Chris, it is lovely to see how you talk about Vicki and me behind our backs and then how you act all friendly and playful on the board. (And yes, she has seen this thread.) Remember all the vile things I wrote about you? Remember how I kept harping on the issue of being duplicitous. Do you now see why?

Mat writes:

Nice! I, personally see no difference from how it was when I joined. There are just less militant Christians there and the ones that are still there are mostly more moderate in view and/or intelligent in posting. Ever consider that? Ever consider that someone simply stating that people should be put to death because the Bible tells them so or that something is “evil” or a “sin” just because the religion preaches it might not go over well with most people who are capable of thinking outside of the intellectual box of religion, and some might take issue with it and actually debate the point? Ever consider why Skywatcher, Rhuarc, and xxDravraxx never get into flame wars with anyone? Because they are incredibly intelligent posters and they do not make crappy arguments, and even if people may disagree with their views they are going to respect HOW they present them. They don’t argue like morons, they never make fools of themselves. You want more people to be respectful of your faith? Show something to respect

Oh, and Stone Dog is back and posting now on the board, just so you all know…

Anyway, I think you all – apart from Chris – should come back and post. Just don’t make crappy arguments and have the expectation that anyone is going to just swallow them down. Or you can just stay here and whine.

Yours,

Bron

Duplicity and filth?

As far as I can tell, all this thread suggests is that these people go back and post at Cold Rocks, and simply shrug off insults and flames rather than letting them drive them away.

Perhaps you should take the advice in that letter you quoted rather than just waving it about; demonstrating that even people you are "close to" have the same problems with you that alienated others really doesn't help your case.

"Legal BS Poo Poo"...please don't tell me that somewhere in my life i used such a sophmoric sentence in a serious debate.


Now, Bron...I have stated recently on this board that i do not like the idea of posting on a board with an agenda in mind. You are doing just that.

If your whole reason for being here is to come down on certain members of my board then I must kindly ask you to leave. I have an anti-flaming rule here and some things that you say in your post is bordering, if not right on, flamming.

from my perspective this is all just entertaining :rollin:

Wow, and I thought I'd be going to bed early tonight...;)




Bron,

The first thing that you need to realize is that I am in no way afraid of a fight. However, if you can remember anything at all about when I used to post there you would remember that I did not do it often. In fact I can say with confidence that I have only posted with the intent to fight once. I'm sure you remember it.

Why? Because that is not the reason that I joined the board. I joined to talk about WOT and above all HAVE FUN!!!!!! I deal with debateable issues on a daily basis the board was an escape from that. I have very specific Christian beliefs and many of the things I firmly believe in would make you cring. However, I have never looked at the board as a place to spout my beliefs because that is not why I joined. You on the other hand love to debate things. I can tell by the very first thing that you posted.

You don't care what it's about you just want to argue. I don't find that line of thinking fun and, therefore, respectfully decline. Why are you always looking for a fight?

As for that I will say that I have never said that Vicki has any of the traits of a dictator. I have said, however, that her decision to take over the board and then MOD the entire thing on her own was a bad one. The board needed the UA that you all hated despirately and MODs to enforce it in order to function as a place of fun. The HB was created specifically for the people that enjoy a good fight. When debates and criticism spill out from there it is bound to annoy and even hurt some people. The lack of action on Vicki's part and the scrapping of the UA made it so that a bunch of people became exposed to crap that they didn't care to see. So they left.

As for the other things regarding the board's management, I will say that even though there may be some amount of scolding going on there are no clear-cut rules regarding the behavior reflected in those emails. Notice Vicki never said, "Bron you are violating the rule about posting behavior. Stop or you will face the consequences described in the agreement." or something to that affect. Until there are clear lines drawn in the sand the posters will go wherever they want. This would include rampant anti-Christian posting. Those things caused many to leave. Personally, I can easily ignore stupidity. My abstaining from posting at a board that I visit every day is proof of that. I have only unwound on one occasion in the interest of standing up for a friend. I have made some great friends over there and when they left the rest of the fun went with them. Hence, I come here.

:rollin:


First, I couldn't care less what you do in your spare time. The only comment I would ever make concerning your "personal life" would be about how it would affect the board (That being your past relationship with Vicki). Like it or not it DOES affect how the board is run. You are given a certain amount of leeway and consideration that others are not. Granted things between you two may be much different from when I was posting there, but when I left you two were pretty chummy.

On a sidenote: The reason why I have the laughing emoticon above is that you accuse others of having no life. I apologize for how personal this may be, but what do you do for a living that allows you to be on the board for the majority of the day? It is a rarity that I lurk the board without seeing you logged in as well. You do have a job, right? You are a lawyer, right? Have you ever said, "Your Honor, I would like to request a recess. I just thought of a great response for my board." Seriously, have you ever lost a client because they thought you weren't working hard enough for them? I apologize if in my ignorance I have described your profession erroneously. I really only know what I have heard about you and what I see concerning your board time.

I find this hard to believe, but I'll let Ghost fight his own battle.

Good. She needs to.

If you took the time to comprehend my quote it was that the board isn't fun. All of the religious crap that you seemed to connect with my post points out why. Why do you always have to talk about religion? I made no mention of it in my original post other than we must ignore it when people bash us for no apparent reason. As Kundor pointed out, my post was not meant to hurt the board it was meant to help us ignore the things that bothered us and try to have fun anyway. By having fun we may be able to set an example that will allow other lurkers to post again. By doing this we may be able to win back the board by making it fun. Will we ever have any control over how things go over there? No. We do, however, have control over ourselves. If we control ourselves and ignore stupidity then we win. The HB is where people argue. The rest of the board is where they have fun. That was the rule I followed until SD parted. When that barrier was broken so was the board.


Therefore, I will conclude this uber-post with my basic thoughts on the issue. Bron, if the only reason you want us to return is so that you can have a bunch of Christians to argue with then I'm sure that I speak for the rest of the group when I say, No thanks. I am able to ignore the crap, but I am unwilling to do it alone. Therefore, this thread to try to get us all on the same page. It was not to get us to hurt the board in any way. It was to ignore stupid crap and have fun again. I guess we'll just have to continue having fun over here.

:yeah: I agree completely with myself

Okay, feel better Mat???

Alright, I think we've got all our feelings out on the table...time to close this baby???

:mischief:

Mat,

I think you have missed the essential point about my post.

The board for the large past is about debate and discussion. You want to have fun? Hang out in the General forum. But you are going to get debate and discussion in the WOT forums, the other fiction forums as well as even in the new film forum, where people’s opinions and views are bound to clash on ideas brought up by others.

Hot Button, that is what is at issue here. It is inherently a place of argument, debate and discussion. No one tolerates bad form there. Period. So unless you can make a solid argument and stick up for it you will be pulverized, by those who support your views or don’t. Sometimes people just agree to disagree and leave it at that, at other times the debates change shape and form and go on for pages at a time before a resolution or compromise is reached. This is intellectual brain candy, the ability to test your mind and your ability to debate a point against those of conflicting or similar dispositions.

If that’s not your cup of tea, don’t post there. It’s that simple. If you want to have fun and just hang out, hang out in the General forum and leave any place else that leads to debate or discussion alone.

As for UA… That’s funny actually. I had written for Victoria an iron clad draconian UA, phrased in about as unambiguous legal language as you could ever imagine, that would have set down a set of controls that you would have been very happy with, that I would have been very happy with. She discussed it with Rob, Kelly, Brian, Sheri, Rowan and the other mod, who’s name I can’t remember now, and they thought that it would be far too restrictive. Then she came to the decision that she would run the board on common sense principles and implement rules as the need appeared.

The thing is this. She does not run the board as a dictator. Posts with bad grammar and syntax get edited, people who make personal attacks get warned on the board, then in private, then they get their posts deleted and if they keep it up they get threatened with a banning.

You write:

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Personally, my opinion, is that Vicki and Brian do a lovely job of moderating the board, as well as the board doing a lovely job of moderating itself. Look to some of Ruho’s more recent posts. Is it offensive for you to see him, of all people, coming down hard on a kid who is professing to be a Christian and is yet distorting all that Christianity stands for? Is that something that you don’t want to see? Additionally, things don’t tend to spill over into General these days so much. Yes, in one moment of bad judgment I called Ruho a dolt. That was blown out of proportion, a bunch of people called me names and the thread was locked. I was not sanctioned for calling Ruho a dolt, and those who called me names were not sanctioned either. Balance. Example of self regulation. Life goes on. If you look in General these days all you see is engagement announcements. Yeah. Good news is that Naiboc and Drav are both engaged now. Go over and congratulate them! The bad news is that Brian (Rhuarc) has lost his dog. So he is quite sad. And in other news, if anyone knows how to get a DVD player in a laptop to work, please go over and help Thunderwalker.

Well, we are all grown ups, sort of, and we are treated as such Mat. The board is being run in a manner that is considered to be reasonable by Vicki and Brian. In law people have to deal with rules and regulations all the time, on that board people deal with one another by reasonable standards. And as for rampant anti-Christian posting… Mat, I dislike religion. All religion. Period. When someone tells me that something should be done a particular way just because the Bible said so it makes me naturally ask, “Why?” See, the Bible states a great many things, some of them you and I would both consider to be good, and some of them you and I would consider to be bad. Just as me arguing that the import tariff rates on high tech goods should be a flat 10% for all foreign products might not be agreed upon by everyone, so would a claim by someone that something should be so just because the Bible said so might also be contested. You come debate my point about import tariffs, I come debate your point about Biblical morality. How much simpler can it get? You don’t want to argue/debate about import tariffs because that’s a sore subject for you? Don’t. You don’t want to argue/debate about religion for similar reasons? Don’t. It does not get simpler than that.

Well, we are still pretty chummy but that’s not any of your business. Anyway… Often Victoria ask for advice, I give it. Unlike other people, I don’t try to tell her how she should run her board. Sometimes she takes my advice, sometimes she does not. She has not implemented the UA that I wrote for her, she has not done a great many things that I have suggested, neither has Brian. They discuss between themselves what they want to do, once in a while they will ask me a legal question and that is that. The only contributions I have had to the board that changed something about it is the Fair Use provision. And why is it always about me? Why is it the supposed leeway that I am given at issue, when you have people like Rand, Dragonslayer, Jasin, and others to talk about, people who are far more vehement and toxic by the very nature of their comments than I could hope to be? Are they also being given leeway when they get into flame wars against me?

First, the barrier has not been broken. General still is a place of “fun,” as you call it. Once in a while “fun” conversations get a bit heated and they get moved. What’s the big deal? Go and have fun, talk about the Wheel of Time, talk about music, movies, other fiction, write your own stories and poems, no one will stop you. But don’t come into Hot Button if you do not want to debate and discuss. It is that simple Mat. I really don’t understand why you are so hung up on this. And the point is that it is not for you to have ”control over how things go over there.” If you want control, start your own board and institute the sort of controls that you find to be acceptable. Do not have the expectation that you can coerce a sovereign owner of another board to do things your way just so that she can make you happy. Would it be fair for me to try to force Merin to change how she chose to run her board? Of course not.

And you are absolutely right about one thing though Mat when you write, “ We do, however, have control over ourselves. If we control ourselves and ignore stupidity then we win.” I agree wholeheartedly with you. Please read some of the more recent posts by Ruho on the board on just that point. The whole issue is to debate like a rational and reasonable person. If you argue in a foolish manner you will be treated like a fool.

You are more than welcome to come to Cold Rocks Hold and have fun there as well. If you genuinely want to do that, then by all means do so, like I said, you can have fun in General, but in the Wheel of Time forums you may face people who disagree with you, as you would in the other fiction, music and film forums, so be careful. And if it is such a big deal to you, just stay out of Hot Button and you will be fine. Or you can just stay here. The choice is yours.

Merin,

Please do me the favor of not locking this thread. I have tried to be as polite and curious as I could have managed. The reason I ask that you keep this thread open is because I believe that Ruho, as well as some other posters, would like to post here as well.

Yours,

Bron

well Bron...I'm still seriously considering locking those post. Your first post and your second post are dealing mainly with Mat. So that leads me to think you have a personal problem with Mat.

And if that is the case, then I suggest you take up the rest of the discussion with him on PM, IM or email.

So, if other people like Ruh0 want to post here they they'd better hurry up and do it.

Merin,

He raised some concerns that were agreed upon by a number of posters here. I addressed his concerns, and I hope those of the posters who agreed with him, in the best manner than I knew how.

I do not see how this is a matter of me having a personal problem with him. I do not believe that I have any problems with him. He brought up his view of things, I defended both myself and Victoria and the operation of the board, as well as offering my view of things, while all the while offering him, and you, an invitation to return to the Cold Rocks Hold. How this shows me having a problem with him I do not know.

Yours,

Bron

Everyone,

Hello! I don’t come here… ever. But I was informed of this post, and after reading it, I felt I should respond. My post isn’t about Victoria, but I would like to say something about her first:

I understand if you don’t like the way things are run now that StoneDog is gone. But as I was telling Rand and Jasyn at Cold Rocks, watch how what you say can effects, well, your effectiveness. When you make a comment about her and Bron, something that is not your business, you make her that much more unwilling to listen to you or respect you. And besides that, it is not Christian. I think remaining on topic would benefit your ability to have a decent discussion on this issue. Personally, I think she revitalized the board, and really like what she has done (no, this isn't kissing up; I was actually about to leave due to the lack of posting until the announcement was made). The board was almost near dead before StoneDog realized it needed a change. Anyways… now on to what I wanted to post about.

I strongly suggest coming back. If you don’t want to post in the Hot Button, you don’t have to. But realize this: anywhere you go in life, there will be people you disagree with. Being religious, probably more so. The Bible promises that we’ll be in conflict; but if every time you meet it, you decide it’s not worth your time, we lose a little. I refuse to leave the Wheel of Time board. It has taught me so much of what I believe, how I present what I believe, and even areas where I was completely wrong. Not only that, it’s just fun. I’m not suggesting you are a quitter; I understand why you wanted to leave. My point is, though, the reason you don’t like this board is because everyone who you enjoyed did leave. Give them a reason to stay and stay yourself.

You probably read my response to Bron. You know, that’s the kind of attitude you need. Be willing to stand up for what you believe, but don’t let it get in the way of your happiness. I didn’t lose any sleep because Bron and I had our little run-in, and I doubt he lost any either. It’s a message board. We are different. We disagreed. Heck, we argued fairly viciously. We do a lot. But iron sharpens iron, it doesn’t destroy it. Are some of them cold and indifferent? Yes. But some are very willing to learn. People like Dai Shan and Niaboc are honestly looking for answers; and even if you don’t like Bron, you have to admit, he forces you to defend why you believe what you believe. Granted he can be condescending and a bitch about it sometimes, but you’ll rarely meet someone with the brains or the disgust to challenge Christianity as he does. If you can weather that storm; defend against that logic; and be convinced thru it all, doesn’t it strengthen you? For me it does.

Maybe it’s just my outlook, but I believe this: conflict is not a bad thing if you take it the right way. Conflict strengthens friendships, can strengthen beliefs, and crack down weak beliefs. There are things I used to believe that I don’t any more. Why? Because they were a pile of crap and people like Drav, Ogre, Bron, Rhuarc, Colleen, and more decided to shove it in my face and say, “This is crap.” I realized they were right and changed. I am thankful for that. If they call other stuff I believe crap too, hey, that just comes with the deal. As for Bron, who seems to be the center of the issue, let me touch on him. I know he won’t mind.

The thing is… I was angry when I responded in the draft thread. And I think I had a right to be, and if you want to know why, you can read my post. But I don’t let things like that get to me. Seriously… we don’t have a draft; I said something erroneous. So in truth, I could walk away and never talk to Bron because he made fun of me, or I could realize that though I believe he overreacted, I made a mistake and I guarantee you I won’t say it again. Thus: I learned something. That is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me: you can learn something from everyone, no matter how disagreeable you think they are. And Bron can be agreeable as well, it’s just you can’t piss him off. Have a temper? Definitely. Long-winded? Yeah. Egotistical? Of course. But I don’t use that as a reason to leave the board. I have an ego, I can talk for hours (look at this post) and I got angry at him. I don’t care who is right or who is wrong, so much as I care that I am not a better person (in this case, simply intellectually) because of it. Don’t take things as conflicts, but challenges.

But that’s only if you want to spend time in Hot Button. Granted, it’s the busiest forum, but why does it have to be? Make General busy, by posting whatever you want in that. Don’t let people drive you away. I’ll never leave this board simply because someone makes me angry; what then? Should I quit my job because I don’t like a colleague? Drop out of college because I don’t like my TA?

Again, I understand why you left; and if you guys don’t want to come back, that’s perfectly fine. Yet I hope you understand how people like me can stay. Do I get a lot of crap? Heck yeah, I often do. But I’m not going to define my happiness by someone telling me they don’t like what I believe (it’s understandable that they’d get mad; no one likes being wrong all the time). Instead, I’ll sharpen and refine what I believe upon their beliefs. If I am wrong, I’ll admit it.

Don’t worry about what the board “used to be.” Nothing in life is stagnant. I don’t want the board to be like it used to be; and I hope it’s not like it is now in ten years. You have to enjoy it for what is it: a portal. Where else can I debate with a former religious zealot Jew, agnostic Hollanders, atheistic Irish, Catholics, hardcore Jews? Yeah, I could get on my church’s email list and we could all pat ourselves on the back about what we believe, but what benefit is that? This board is changes. Good people leave? Yes. So why don’t you come back and prove that good people don’t leave.

Hello Ruho and thank you for posting.

Tell Vicki that i am sorry that i offended her but where there is a community there is gossip and I can only call things as i see them. She and Bron made it no secret that they were "together" for a while and Bron made it no secret to announce about other girls. I did not write it with the intention to "piss off" Bron or Vicki b/c I had no idea that Bron or Vicki would find themselves over here. If I wanted to "piss them off" I would have posted what I said on Vicki's board. Here I said what I said b/c in my eyes it's the truth.

Anyway, thank you for your post but I'm going to have to say what I told Rhuarc a long time ago. The board did become something different and it became something that I didn't feel like I belonged to anymore.

It's no crime for me to just leave a board. I didn't care for the politics of the board and so I left. I had created this board way before I left Vicki's, I had an even older version of this board way back when. So, it seemed natural that i would leave a board that i was unhappy with to nurture my own board.

And perhaps Ruho that I left the board b/c, as being a proper witness, I saw that I could no longer control myself and reply to posts how I should???

Every person here made the INDEPENDENT decision to leave Vicki's, I did not start an anti-WOT board campaign or emailed people about how they should leave. Each person who left Vicki's and posted here did so b/c they were unhappy with that board and hoped to find happiness here.

That is no crime.

So, I made the independent decision to stay here and not go back to Vicki's, if this decision bothers you and others of the same opinion of you, then I'm sorry, but I'm not going back. I'm happy here. I like it here.

Merin,

Two points:

(1) Gossip is not gossip because it is untrue. Gossip is gossip because it's not your business. It doesn't matter that they see or not see. If they would have never seen, it would be just as bad

(2) I respect your decision to leave and stay away. That is fine. Some people enjoy conflict and grow from it; for others, they are hurt by it and in the long run, does worse for them. It's not a right/wrong answer, just how you handle situations. I do hope others can return though.

1) I'll conceed to your point

2) I have grown up as a result of these conflicts: I've learned when it is wise to just leave. I stuck it out as long as I could and I didn't want to leave for a long time, but as time went on I found that i was just getting more and more unhappy. So, instead of just forcing myself to be unhappy, I left. That's part of growing up too.

Ruho,

I see that you have fallen to the same misconception as the others. This thread must be put into perspective if you all are going to understand it.


The original post was a message to the others saying that I wanted to go over and post about WOT again, but I wanted my friends with me. The one person that I knew I could've affected was Merin. She was very upset when she left SD's. Now I am a MOD on her board. If I went over and started posting at SD's again and started to post at the CC less it would bother her. I am unwilling to do that. Therefore, I felt that an open honest post that could help the others to return with me would help keep things to be honest and avoid strife. In short I would not go without Merin's blessing. Not because she is the head of this board, but because she is my friend. Also, I wanted the same people that made it so fun in the first place there with me. Therefore, I proposed a plan for them to be able to ignore the things that bothered them.

The rest of this thread has been smoke and mirrors concerning why we all left in the first place. Ruho, if you feel that you are making a difference in other's lives by standing up for Christianity on the board then more power to you. However, I know that Colleen, Bron, etc. are never going to believe. They have made their anti-Christian beliefs abundantly clear. I will not argue with walls. Therefore, I stay out of the debating side of the board which used to be the HB.

Bron,

You seem to have misunderstood me. I am well aware that conflict can occur outside of the HB. I may have made a blanket statement and must now elaborate. I am more than willing to discuss and debate WOT. That would fall under the whole category of fun still. I don't know how one could talk about WOT without debating things. My thing is that I don't want to debate RL issues when the only place that they should be is in the HB. Heck, Taimendred III is the reason I joined the board in the first place. My disgust with debating has to do with the way that the HB is not unique anymore because there were HB issues all over the board when I left. Even in general as you seem to think that is the only place I would post and have fun. You make it sound like I refuse to post anywhere where disagreement is found. If I made it sound that way then.....oops. I meant that I was unwilling to debate RL issues because most of those have roots in religion and as I have stated earlier I am unwilling to spend all of my free time away from religious circles debating religion. In case you don't already know I am studying the Bible in college to become a Pastor. Therefore, when I leave school and work and I come home to have some fun on a board I don't want to continue discussing religion. Could I discuss religion? Of course! I could talk religion until my knowledge of the Bible was spent, which would take a while. However, that is not why I post. I stay away from it for a reason.



Ruho,

I just want to point out that personal lives are nobody's business unless it affect others. Case in point - Where I work you are not allowed to date employees if you are a manager. If my boss dates employees then it affects how they act at work. This is a problem. If you want to stand there with a pious attitude and shroud everything under a "it isn't Christian" banner then you are either missing the point of the argument, or you have messed up beliefs.


That being said Bron,

The entire reason we left should be made obvious in Ghost's goodbye thread. It got way out of control and nobody received any warning that I know of. If we had MODs then it would've never gotten that far. Heck, I even said that in the thread. Vicki's only response was to lock it after it had already turned terribly wrong. That is evidence as to why I feel that there is inadequate Modding over there. Things may have changed. I don't know, but I have yet to see it. If your response to this is that Vicki can't control everything if she doesn't see it at first then you have just made my point. I know Vicki can't see everything as it happens and that she can't lock or delete until she sees it. However, THAT IS WHY SHE NEEDS MODS. The board needs people to watch it more often than one person is able to.



Keep the thread in perspective people. This wasn't supposed to be a "Why we hate CRH" thread. It was meant to be a "Can we return and ignore the things that upset us" thread.

you can go back if that's what you want ;)...I'm not going to hate you for it, I just won't join you :P

This is incorrect, I have nothing at all against christianity, it's organized religion I have a problem with. More specifically, those who lead, and those who allow themselves to be led.

Also, please refrain from putting words into my mouth; I have never said I would never believe, be it in your religion or any other, I simply require proof.

And now I've gone and posted in English. Please don't force me to do this again.

I still want you guys there with me if I go.