Below is a population estimate for each of the Premier League and Division Two sides in the ASRL. With next year's revenue likely to be generated by crowds, it pays to be somewhere where the population is large enough to viably support you.

Adelaide Attitude: 1,003,500
Auckland Pirates: 401,500
Bondi Battlers: 30,800 (In Bondi proper)
Brisbane Bulls: 1,600,000
Campbelltown Invasion: 150,000
Canberra Chargers: 307,700
Capetown Ravens: 3,000,000
Carnarvon Cowboys: 7000 (Jesus, never knew it was that low)
Central Coast Falcons: 285,508
Central Phoenix: 28,000 (Alice Springs local population)
Christchurch Avalanches: 300,000
Darwin Cyclones: 109,500
Eastwood Pumas: 95,744 (Ryde used, as there's no Eastwood figure)
Geelong Bengals: 188,800
Gold Coast Crusade: 500,000
Hornsby Mavericks: 186,000
Lake Heights Lighting: Insufficient data (get the fuck out)
Liverpool Rockets: 167,880
Melbourne Executioners: 3,800,000
New England: 24,596 (Armidale only) 29,000 with Glen Innes
Newcastle Fear: 140934 (Excluding surrounds and Lake Macquarie)
North Queensland Dolphins: 95,837 (Townsville only)
Northern Cannons: 38,987 (Manly only) 98,987 with North Sydney
Parramatta Vikings: 151,076
Perth Taipans: 1,460,000
Port Macquarie Stingrays: 33,700
Redfern All Whites: 180,000 (Sydenham used)
South Queensland Underdogs: 90,000 (Toowoomba used)
Surfers Paradise Punks: 11,965 (Would share Gold Coast population as well)
Sydney Oilers: 146,297 (Sydney city) 6,000,000 (whole of Sydney)
Tamworth City Titans: 37,272
Tasmanian Devils: 195,800 (Hobart population)
Wagga Badgers: 57,557
Waikato Breakers: 373,200
Wellington Cougars: 423,765
Wollongong Destructors: 191,558

Sides in Danger
Wagga Badgers
Port Macquarie Stingrays
Tamworth City Titans
New England Ferrets
Central Phoenix
Carnarvon Cowboys

so the sides in danger should theoretically be the ones who may be forced to relocate?

Yeah, they're the ones who will be drawing fairly low level crowds. I mean, a population of 7000!? That'd generate maybe 1000 people for a big game when you take into account the fact there's women and kids and old people and professionals who couldn't/wouldn't go.

You don't have to, of course, but it'd be lean financially to rely on that pittance of a revenue.

Nooooo!!!
Oh well, the novelty of the Ferrets was bound to end.
What region that is large is not taken?
Im thinking a merger with Tamworth......

For those who may be forced to relocate but who don't want to leave Australian shores. The following areas might be of interest:

New South Wales
Bankstown - 175,000
Blacktown - 278,532
Canterbury - 135,048
Lake Macquarie - 189,196
Penrith - 177,554
Sutherland - 214,784
Tweed - 79,910

Northern Territory
N/A

Queensland
Caboolture - 126,729
Cairns - 125,132
Ipswich - 135,579
Logan - 173,331
Maroochydore - 141,069
Pine Rivers - 139,228

South Australia
Marion - 80,512
Onkaparinga - 153,496
Port Adelaide - 103,830
Salisbury - 119,272
Tea Trea Gully - 100,080

Tasmania
Launceston - 64,057

Victoria
Banyule - 117,323
Boroondurra - 158,290
Brimbank - 174,426
Casey - 210,389
Darebin - 127,521
Hume - 148,195
Kingston - 136,684
Monash - 161,544

Western Australia
Joondalup - 158,216
Melville - 97,541
Rockingham - 81,847
Wanneroo - 100,000

I recon Belmore needs a team... it's right in the middle of Canterbury and Bankstown ;);)

I recon your face needs a team

I'd suggest your Mum needs a team, but by all accounts, she's already had one! ;)

Any chance we could add a feature for teams to add transport to their stadia upgrades. This could add a percentage of extra gate takings based on the crowds the side is already drawing.

example Hornsby have 180,000 pop size. Say 30,000 people attend a game. Transport facility upgrades would contrubute percentage wise to gate entry. This way small towns might be able to hold off on stadium upgrades until they have the power to draw larger crowds. You might also be able to apply a win loss percentage to calculate the proportion of the population who attend matches. I dont know how it is worked out no but im prepared to design a workable excel template that would calculate these for you by entering the win loss percentage (I wont guarantee a great template but maybe someone who is good at these things can go over it when im done and smooth it out). Here is my proposed system for transport facilities. This way we may avoid making people relocate from their tradtional areas.

Parking facility upgrade (Levels 1-3) only home teams popualation attendence will increase.
Lvl 1 Add 5% to crowds
Lvl 2 Add 5% to crowds (10% combined)
Lvl 3 Add 5% to crowds (15%)

Public transport local (Levels 1-3) Home team population increase.
1 Add 10% to crowd size.
2 Add 5%
3 Add 5%

Public transport regional (1-3) Interstate options could also be added.
1 2% of states population attend the games. (maybe i am getting too complicated here)
2 4% state population
3 6% state population

Season ticket holder packages.
1,2 and 3. Guarantees a set number of people will attend every game. This is seperate from normal form based attendences. You could add a bonus for sides who finish in the top eight to this also, as last years success will build next years crowds. A second benefit of this would be that Opposition teams would also bring a small percentage of their attendence along to add gate takings.

I could possibly think up some additional options that could specifically benefit teams with smaller population bases. This really is aimed at letting teams in poor areas fill their stadiums before they have to upgrade them. I would also provide a ceiling to the number of options each team could buy (maybe reduced for larger population bases as they already have an advantage) or their would be some unbelievable crowds happening. Ill give the spreadsheet a go if you want but if you hold out any more than a week or two i will be too busy with Tafe again. If need be i could also run the attendances if no-one is currently doing so. One week with no work to do and ive become nocturnal again. :no:

Sounds good, Al. A workable spreadsheet might be good, provided there's room for me to include other factors (such as rivallries, hype in the form of articles being posted, success of the sport in the region etc)

Cool ill get onto it in the morning.

i would have thought that with my feeder club being cairns id pick crowds from both townsville and cairns???

any data for Fremantle?

auckland may be a bit low, as people in north shore, waitakere (west auckland) and manakau (south auckland) would all be close enough. at least a million people should be supporting them.

Don't forget that in country area's any possible team would be supported by more then just one town/city. For example a team was based in Dubbo then it would draw people from the surrounding areas (Bathurst, Orange and Parkes are all within a 2 hour drive of Dubbo and have a combined population of well over 100,000). The same would apply for the Tamworth/Armidale region. IRL the cowboys have fans that travel that distance and more to each home game.

North Queensland would certainly attract Cairns' followers, but I didn't include them here as an indication of the local population base should a side be based out of Cairns again (which isn't a bad option, given its population).

Wasn't aware of Auckland's base being so good, so thanks for that, Doug.

As for country areas, in the case of New England/Tamworth, it really doesn't help, given that there's not a hell of a lot within two hours. Dubbo, likewise, would be having to rely on stealing what few Gosford based people weren't already travelling to see one of the Sydney, Newcastle, or Central Coast based sides.

going by 2003 figures (nz figures)
auckland 1,290,000
welly: 451,600
christchurch: 358,000
waikato: 379,000 (if you take the whole province) 179,000 just hamilton.

gisborne 32,700 (haha bigger than two premier league teams)


if anyone wanted to go into new zealand they could base themselves in napier, which another city is close by (hastings) total population 148,500. gisborne is not that far away either. ground they could use would be mclean park (play cricket and rugby their)

I don't care if you include country areas or not...just pointing out that a fan base for a possible country team would not draw on just the 'local' population.

Dubbo...Gosford :blink:

Penrith needs a team that fucken giant light bulb is going to waste

haha someone relocate to Logan and call yourselves the Thieves! Rough as guts area, plenty of lower class society there perfect for those people who enjoy ghetto life and your car on bricks or burnt out in your front lawn :lol:

logan hahaha, number one suburb woodridge, where armed crime rules

I am wondering that whoever has Ipswich would they have an advantage? I mean everyone in Ipswich has 2 heads so would that mean double the attendance figures :P

HAHA Ipswich, HAHA Logan

**reminds himself that his city has the most number of wankers out of the whole thing**

Well atleast we have fine individuals such as Eddie McGuire :P

do i have to relocate? i will gladly if i have to lol

You don't have to, but it'd be advisable.

word

i'd like to relocate as soon as next season if i'm allowed

How far out is a sides' sphere of influence going to be allowed to be, when a major metropolitan area is not involved?

Within 140 km or so of Wagga, according to the 2003 Australian Census, the population totals perhaps 340k - and just beyond that, Canberra's 323k (unless they've shrunk in two years - same 2003 Aus Census data points I used for Wagga anaylsis) would ensure, with clever marketing, a synergy between the two clubs, allowing Canberra fans who want to see an occasional Premiership game to easily travel to Wagga, and Wagga fans who want to see a top Division Two side who's shooting for the Premiership...

...as for the need for stealing other clubs' fans to make a 340k potential market - Wagga doesn't have anyone in its immediate market, save for Canberra (D2 at present, at its' extreme outer limits - and would likely be a synergistic derby rival, rather than a competitor for attendances) - so that 340k should be a safe figure to use...

...if it's allowed....

Yeah - I've got no problems with that. Wagga represents a fairly unique area, and it was marginal on the 'in danger' call to begin with.

Bump. If you're thinking of relocating, now is a good time to look at it. Remember that finance next year will rely on ticket sales!

Is this including all those surrounding suburbs? For example,there's some five suburbs between Redfern and Sydenham. Unless you count them too you're going to find there's some 2 million people in Sydney not being included. This will be difficult to track with the Sydney clubs, but you'll find them more than capable of competing with Brisbane, or the Gold Coast... maybe not Melbourne though. :)

This is neccessary for not over antagonising the Sydney clubs.

In 'real life' Sydenham is Wests Tigers territory (not inc. the Bluebags) and a quick glance at the map shows how far away Balmain is.

Here's a shortened list including major suburbs:

Bondi Battlers: Watsons Bay, Vaucluse, Dover Heights, Double Bay, Bellevue Hill, Bondi, Bronte, Clovelly, Coogee,Bondi Junction, Waverley.
Campbelltown Invasion: Campbelltown, Ruse, Airds, Ambarvale, Bradbury, Blair Athol, Woodbine, Leumeah, Blairmont, Claymore, Camden (a lot of people).
Eastwood Pumas: Ryde, Putney, Gladesville, East Ryde, North Ryde, Macquarie Park, Marsfield, Denistone, Meadowbank, Eastwood, Epping, Strathfield.
Hornsby Mavericks: Hornsby, Westleigh, Thornleigh, Wahroonga, Warrawee, Pymble, St Ives, Pennant Hills, Beecroft, Asquith.
Liverpool Rockets: Liverpool, Cabramatta (a lot), Fairfield, Holsworthy, Glenfield, Ashcroft.
Northern Cannons: Manly, Nth Sydney, Chatswood (a lot of people), Loungueville, Lane Cove, Roseville, Lindfield, Killara, St Leonards, Artarmon, Cammeray, Cremorne, Mosman, Brookvale, Dee Why, Frenchs Forest
Parramatta Vikings: Parramatta, Granville, Wentworthville, Westmead, Homebush
Redfern All Whites: Redfern, Sydneyham, Marrickville, Newtown (a lot).
Sydney Oilers: City, Glebe, Pyrmont, Paddington.

I don't think we need to move more teams into Sydney, with a few exceptions.

Bankstown - Counts towards Liverpool.
Blacktown - Counts towards Parramatta
Canterbury - Perhaps into a Cronulla-Sutherland-Hurstville team.
Lake Macquarie - Central Coast
Penrith - Mix with a Mt. Druitt crowd.

Perhaps a density map would help out. Find out density averages for areas, and multiply it by the area covered. Or we can add up the figures for every shitty little suburb...

There's some four and half million people in Sydney. None of the sydney clubs are in danger of not being followed.

I wasn't under the impression I'd told Sydney clubs to relocate for population reasons. The only reason I've ever pushed for relocation of Sydney clubs was to get a better spread of teams across Australia. However, with Northern Territory now entirely unrepresented, I've basically given up on that notion.

Still, some good research there. If any Sydney clubs were pondering relocation, that should allay your fears.

If you're referring to the Lake Macquarie with suburbs such as Toronto, that'd go to Newcastle rather than the Central Coast. Charlestown, right on the edge of Lake Macquarie, is basically in Newcastle.

I know you weren't pushing their relocation. I just thought that perhaps these figures were going to directly affect crowd income next season. I didn't want Sydney clubs to be let down. Esp. since they're close to other clubs would perhaps help their figures.

Perhaps a Cronulla-Sutherland-Hurstville-Canterbury team could heal some of the racial rifts of the area. The Tom Ugly Fruit Cup would be a good name (after a pretty important bridge between the areas, and the well known fact that "it takes all kinds of fruit to make fruit cup").

The Cyclones are set to leave Darwin and move to Toowoomba represnting the 215,857 people from the Darlings Downs and 15,067 from Esk, 16,166 from Gatton and 13,200 from Laidley giving a total of 260,000 people.

Nooooooo. Not Darwin. They're one of my favourites. Such a suitable name.